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Police and Prison Abolition Thread

Defund is a bad slogan because it can easily be characterized by opponents as getting rid of police and inviting lawless anarchy. Particularly when there is a component of the movement promoting that and the fact that you are really talking about police reform.
 
1)I agree that "defund" is a bad slogan if you don't mean "abolish". I would hope anyone posting on this thread or bothering to argue on social media would take the time to learn the difference, but not everyone is doing that.

2)That said, the "defund" crowd doesn't have the pr firm that establishment Dems do. The latter wagging their finger at the former is blaming the former for a messaging failure that the latter has the resources to counteract. If someone things Spanberger wants to-or can, for that matter-defund the police because a scary commercial said so, that's something that Spanberger needs to fix with a better ground game.

3)I find it very telling that "defund" is being singled out instead of "expand the court", at least with regard to congress. "Expand the court" was more recent to the campaign, is something that Congress can actually do, probably "feels" more undemocratic to some, and we know that the court was a motivator for some segment of Trump voters in 2016. IMO, the reason that Obama et. al. are singling out "defund the police" is that they are messaging against something they don't want to see happen without looking like they are opposed to it.
 
Defund is a bad slogan because it can easily be characterized by opponents as getting rid of police and inviting lawless anarchy. Particularly when there is a component of the movement promoting that and the fact that you are really talking about police reform.


Of course.

Also, a slogan that sounds like just taking money away isn’t going to seem likely to most folks to make anything better.
 
Defund is a bad slogan because it can easily be characterized by opponents as getting rid of police and inviting lawless anarchy. Particularly when there is a component of the movement promoting that and the fact that you are really talking about police reform.

Police “reform”, whatever the fuck “reform” means, is “easily mischaracterized” in the exact same way, because Republicans mischaracterize *all* Democratic policy in the worst manner possible. You pretend otherwise because it serves your ideology to discourage radical policy goals, and Republicans are convenient to blame.
 
I’m waiting with bated breathe for the Democrats to support major cuts and reallocations of police budgets under a smarter and more easily understood policy slogan.
 
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Police “reform”, whatever the fuck “reform” means, is “easily mischaracterized” in the exact same way, because Republicans mischaracterize *all* Democratic policy in the worst manner possible. You pretend otherwise because it serves your ideology to discourage radical policy goals, and Republicans are convenient to blame.
Reform such as demilitarization treating a lot more of these instances as public health concerns instead of security threats when possible tied in with decriminalization of drug offenses.

When are you progressives ever going to get it through your head that trying to alienate people who agree with you on a lot of issues is never going to result in you getting anything accomplished?
 
Here's the piece that describes the poll.

It appears the "defunding" question was asked in this way...

510735-20200814-poll-graphic-03.png



Other questions and results are also discussed.


edited to add the link
 
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Here's the piece that describes the poll.

It appears the "defunding" question was asked in this way...

510735-20200814-poll-graphic-03.png



Other questions and results are also discussed.
But using highly misleading poll results plays great to the Twitter Echo chamber where they're convinced that their ideas are just incredibly popular and there's some nefarious force keeping them from being implemented
 
??? I don’t really think that is highly misleading?
 
When are you progressives ever going to get it through your head that trying to alienate people who agree with you on a lot of issues is never going to result in you getting anything accomplished?

Whenever you stop insulting our intelligence and just admit to opposing our goals. You want to mark a date?
 
Some additional results...


5f2823-20200814-poll-graphic-05.png



84f51e-20200814-poll-graphic-07.png



bca12b-20200814-poll-graphic-06.png




e55529-20200814-poll-graphic-02.png





Sorry, I don't know how to resize images.
 
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??? I don’t really think that is highly misleading?


It's fair to wonder what would be the results if the question were rather: "Do you favor defunding the police?".


It's not surprising most folks answered the actual question affirmatively. That's the point...people generally favor enhanced public services to deal with mental health and other crises instead of having the police deal with nearly every perceived emergency. So yeah, I'd hope politicians and leaders of good will and skill could leverage this into positive change.
 
??? I don’t really think that is highly misleading?

ChrisL: “Defund the police” is a bad slogan because Republicans can easily mischaracterize it.

*Poll accurately describes Defund the Police*

ChrisL: The poll is misleading because it didn’t mischaracterize Defund The Police
 
Well why don't you save a lot of time and you tell me what I think about this issue?

That’s easy. You support whatever is most popular with politicians at the time. You have the political ideology of a weathervane or a windsock.
 
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It's a wonder that there are apparently quite a few folks who favor reallocation of police funds to social services and yet don't want to shrink the police force/services.


Democracy is...interesting.
 
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