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Police and Prison Abolition Thread

TenaciousKory said:
If discussing issues between people of different perspectives was a necessary function of this board, I don't think the Tunnels would exist. At least 85% of the posts seemingly don't serve that purpose and I don't understand what it has to do with you misreading my post and accusing me of repeatedly "gaslighting" other posters and arguing on behalf of "anarchy." Like ... what?

This is a space for bickering, not discussion and I'm reminded of that every time I come here to post about a topic I'm passionate about.
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Whatever. You still haven't articulated whatever alternative that would protect a rental property owner's property rights other than eviction/enforcement of those rights as the last recourse of a standoff that couldn't be resolved through other means.

You seem to support dismissive commentary from people on these boards frequently, as long as they are extremely progressive in their viewpoints.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
“Militarization” - another buzzword. It’s like debating a DC consulting firm. The military protocol for discharging a weapon is much stricter than law enforcement. When does “militarization” ever come into the conversation beyond riot control and podunk small town parades when Deputy Dipshit gets to drive a tank down Main Street?
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"Militarization" of police departments also means that they have been provided military equipment, like armored vehicles and heavy automatic weapons.
 
Deaconblue said:
"Militarization" of police departments also means that they have been provided military equipment, like armored vehicles and heavy automatic weapons.
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Yes, and none of those are the chief concerns of BLM or police violence protesters. Those aren’t the tools being used to abuse, kill, and subvert justice. The heart of the matter is power and money, everything else is secondary. This is what every fraudulent effort at “reform” skirts around, and refuses to address.
 
So that money and power doesn't manifest itself in all the shiny military toys that police departments in major metropolitan areas have and the soldier mentality that it encourages?
 
Militarization also includes police acting as an occupying force and treating citizens like enemy combatants. Tanks just reinforce that.
 
ChrisL68 said:
So that money and power doesn't manifest itself in all the shiny military toys that police departments in major metropolitan areas have and the soldier mentality that it encourages?
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Do I need to repeat myself? I don’t disregard those secondary concerns, I just note that liberals focus on those secondary concerns because they don’t have the political will to strike at the heart of the problem.
 
PhDeac said:
Militarization also includes police acting as an occupying force and treating citizens like enemy combatants. Tanks just reinforce that.
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The very way you just described it shows that It’s a worthless adjective just meant to separate the concept of policing from its unpopular connotations.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Do I need to repeat myself? I don’t disregard those secondary concerns, I just note that liberals focus on those secondary concerns because they don’t have the political will to strike at the heart of the problem.
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How is defunding the police going to change the mindset of the police? That's an issue of reform.
 
American policing is rotten to the core, and has been since its inception as slave catching. There’s no sense in peeling a rotten onion.
 
ChrisL68 said:
How is defunding the police going to change the mindset of the police? That's an issue of reform.
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You can’t change their mindset, you can only limit their authority, make them accountable to the law, and give them far less responsibility with which to cause harm. You have a hammer in your toolbox because sometimes you need to hammer, but it’s a limited purpose unless you’re an asshole who just goes around destroying shit with a hammer. That’s what our police system is, a toolbox full of hammers.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
American policing is rotten to the core, and has been since its inception as slave catching. There’s no sense in peeling a rotten onion.
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You peel a rotten onion to show how rotten it is, especially if all people know is eating rotten onions.

You're right. I agree with you on these issues. But you don't seem to have any idea or desire to convince other people aside from just repeating your opinion.
 
PhDeac said:
But you don't seem to have any idea or desire to convince other people aside from just repeating your opinion.
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That’s completely true. I’ve never liked sales, and I don’t post on the boards to win elections. I could never be a politician, which is probably why I appreciate Bernie so much, he’s the most anti-politician I’ve ever seen and I love him for it because I identify so much with him.

I’ve gained a lot of knowledge from this board, but certainly never been argued out of my own convictions.
 
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Sure. I don't like sales either. But politics is sales and anti-politicians still have to build a consensus around ideas in order to make them happen.

I'll explain the problem like this. You're a UK basketball fan, right? I could tell you about how shady Cal is, how shady Pitino was, the program's racist roots in Adolph Rupp, whatever. But you're still going to be a UK basketball fan no matter what.

That's how people feel about cops.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Whatever. You still haven't articulated whatever alternative that would protect a rental property owner's property rights other than eviction/enforcement of those rights as the last recourse of a standoff that couldn't be resolved through other means.
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You're not wrong. The future of a world with a substantially reduced or eliminated police force isn't a change that's just going to impact the police department. It'd require a vast revision of our relationship to property as well. I don't know exactly what that looks like - that's not my field of study. I could make guesses, but they're liable to be wrong. I don't think the inability to imagine the magic solution in 2020 changes the need for drastic change though, considering the urgency that has emerged from this year (and the decades of police violence that have preceded it, to be fair).

ChrisL68 said:
You seem to support dismissive commentary from people on these boards frequently, as long as they are extremely progressive in their viewpoints.
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I don't know what you're referring to here. Literally all I've tried to do is engage in good faith with you and you've just been a tremendous ass to me the whole time. Kind of proves my point, imo.
 
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PhDeac said:
But politics is sales and anti-politicians still have to build a consensus around ideas in order to make them happen.
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Prove it? I’m not saying you’re wrong. I just do not believe that Democrats actually want to enact the policies that would fulfill the liberal ideology they claim to have. I think they’re self interested frauds for whom being professional politicians is a social status. With very few exceptions, I simply do not believe that congresspeople are interested in my well-being. I’ll stop there to discourage the thread going further off-topic.
 
How will we protect private property without cops?!?

 
Yeah. Cops are a gang. The work is in convincing people that cops are a gang. Even when you make a TV show about how cops function as a gang, people are trained to root for the cop gang.

MDMH, I still have no idea how you see anything happening without building a coalition to do. Progressive ideas are popular. Elected progressives are mostly good messengers and moving the needle. But there too much resignation that the people who are actively changing their opinions on progressive ideology won’t change.
 
MHBDemon said:
How will we protect private property without cops?!?

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Asset forfeitures are another area where massive reform is needed. Totally unnecessary and ties into the whole militarization argument I was making. Again in a lot of areas we agree but y'all freak the f*** out and have a hissy fit because I am a landlord and call it reform.
 
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ChrisL68 said:
Asset forfeitures are another area where massive reform is needed. Totally unnecessary and ties into the whole militarization argument I was making. Again in a lot of areas we agree but y'all freak the f*** out and have a hissy fit because I am a landlord and call it reform.
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In your opinion, what areas of policing aren't in need of massive reform?

What are police doing really well? in what areas are they more effective than an alternative solution?

I think answering these questions will narrow the scope of what we actually need police to do. In my opinion, this reduces their entire function to situations that need an armed response (which are very infrequent). Adjust funding of police to be more commensurate to that need and use the rest of their funding at this point to fund social endeavors that attack the root of the majority of crime, i.e. unemployment, mental health issues, etc.
 
Perhaps one way to start changing mindset of police would be much more extensive psychological evaluation of police officer trainee candidates. Weed out those with bullying/military occupation force etc. tendencies. To reinforce that policy, require re-evaluation periodically, just as physical condition is evaluated periodically. you fail, you go on probation. Fail again and you are medically retired from the police.
 
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