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Thread: Police and Prison Abolition Thread

  1. #141
    Rusty Larue

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    If you paid attention to what I have posted, I have repeatedly said we need new styles of prisons and methodologies for those incarcerated. I've said we don't need to keep an overwhelming majority of non-violent criminals in prison. I've stated we should move towards Portugal's drug policies.

    There are some people who need to be in prison and some need not to have any bail.

    The object should be to get done the things that are agreed upon and work on those we don't. This isn't something that can be done overnight or with one law.

    I would love to see DAs and cops be liable for framing innocent people. My opinion is they should be considered guilty of kidnapping those who were framed and other serious repercussions.
    Was this supposed to be a response to the post you quoted?

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by RChildress107 View Post
    I would feel pretty confident in that statement as well.

    The ďwhat about murderers and rapistsĒ has only ever been a theoretical conversation brought up by people trying to undermine the abolitionist framework for evaluating our prison system.
    It's only a theoretical question because what you propose isn't a reality. And it's not intended to "undermine" your movement - it simply challenges you to grapple with the consequences of what you propose. I'm hoping you're aware - but there are undoubtedly negatives and tradeoffs in what you propose. And I don't know whether your proposals exist in any great detail, but there's no way to respond to them other than in generalities because you haven't stated anything concrete, detailed, or specific. You just say "I'd like a system that does X, Y, and Z." Ok, I guess. But that doesn't really go anywhere other than stating your generic criticism of our current system and what you'd in theory like to see.

  3. #143
    Iím fine If we eliminate murders from the conversation in this new utopia with the agreement that certain actions within this utopian society remove you from society permanently, no need for prison we you cease to exist.

  4. #144
    Scooter Banks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamison2Carter View Post
    It's only a theoretical question because what you propose isn't a reality. And it's not intended to "undermine" your movement - it simply challenges you to grapple with the consequences of what you propose. I'm hoping you're aware - but there are undoubtedly negatives and tradeoffs in what you propose. And I don't know whether your proposals exist in any great detail, but there's no way to respond to them other than in generalities because you haven't stated anything concrete, detailed, or specific. You just say "I'd like a system that does X, Y, and Z." Ok, I guess. But that doesn't really go anywhere other than stating your generic criticism of our current system and what you'd in theory like to see.
    How close are we to hypersleep pods:





    And while we're at it, how close are we to pre-cogs?

    I'd be down for both.

  5. #145
    Rusty Larue

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamison2Carter View Post
    It's only a theoretical question because what you propose isn't a reality. And it's not intended to "undermine" your movement - it simply challenges you to grapple with the consequences of what you propose. I'm hoping you're aware - but there are undoubtedly negatives and tradeoffs in what you propose. And I don't know whether your proposals exist in any great detail, but there's no way to respond to them other than in generalities because you haven't stated anything concrete, detailed, or specific. You just say "I'd like a system that does X, Y, and Z." Ok, I guess. But that doesn't really go anywhere other than stating your generic criticism of our current system and what you'd in theory like to see.
    ďItís never going to happenĒ is never a good argument that it shouldnít happen.

    Of course I realize there are trade offs. Iím confident that they will all result in far less harm to society than our current prison system. Iíve already stated that I think letting all prisoners walk free tomorrow without any plans in place to monitor them would be less harmful than our current system. Iím obviously not advocating for that, but itís demonstrative of my awareness of the trade offs involved with abolishing prisons.

    My proposal is very simple: Stop involuntarily confining people as a punishment for crime. What additional details do you need?

  6. #146
    Rusty Larue

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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Gossett Jr View Post
    Iím fine If we eliminate murders from the conversation in this new utopia with the agreement that certain actions within this utopian society remove you from society permanently, no need for prison we you cease to exist.
    Who said anything about utopia?

  7. #147
    I donít know just seems that nothing has been proposed that is the real world so we are going for the utopia where we believe everyone is inherently good, can change, etc... System sucks letís change it is a good starting point but system sucks letís tear it down with nothing real in its place seems pointless.

  8. #148
    Rusty Larue

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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Gossett Jr View Post
    I donít know just seems that nothing has been proposed that is the real world so we are going for the utopia where we believe everyone is inherently good, can change, etc... System sucks letís change it is a good starting point but system sucks letís tear it down with nothing real in its place seems pointless.

    i already addressed this. I certainly donít believe people are inherently good.

    I do believe prisons are inherently bad and thus tearing that system down with nothing in place is far from pointless. Thatís like saying we couldnít get rid of our torture program with nothing real in its place.

    Iím well aware that completely abolishing prisons is a pipe dream. This country elected Donald Trump less than two years ago. Thatís got to put us at least 100 years away from having anything resembling a humane justice system. I do think that making people articulate exactly why they think we need prisons might at least lead to a less widespread and inhumane use of them.

  9. #149
    I already said we donít need prison for murderers, guy that kidnapped the 13 year old girl, killed her parents, confession, all the evidence possible, expedite and end his life. No prison needed.

  10. #150
    Rusty Larue

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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Gossett Jr View Post
    I already said we donít need prison for murderers, guy that kidnapped the 13 year old girl, killed her parents, confession, all the evidence possible, expedite and end his life. No prison needed.
    Yeah we donít need to kill him either. We might want to kill him, but we donít need to.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by RChildress107 View Post
    Yeah we donít need to kill him either. We might want to kill him, but we donít need to.
    Yeah. Probably should just release him and ask him to wear a GPS so they can find him after he kills another teen.

    And then rinse and repeat.

  12. #152
    Rusty Larue

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    Quote Originally Posted by DistrictDeacon View Post
    Yeah. Probably should just release him and ask him to wear a GPS so they can find him after he kills another teen.

    And then rinse and repeat.
    So the theory is all murderers are would be serial killers if not for prisons depriving them of the opportunity to kill again (setting aside the fact that prisons donít actually do that)?

    Any support for that theory?

  13. #153
    Rusty Larue

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    Quote Originally Posted by DistrictDeacon View Post
    Yeah. Probably should just release him and ask him to wear a GPS so they can find him after he kills another teen.

    And then rinse and repeat.
    Surprise! Thatís exactly what we did for the two years before he went to trial. He didnít kill another teen.

  14. #154
    I just donít get your understanding of being a murderer. Current system you go to a shitty place for a long period of time, seems like itís the minimum that should occur if you commit murder. At first it seemed like in your eyes because the place is also shitty for a ton of people that donít belong to be in such shitty circumstances the whole thing should be shut down. However now it seems you also have sympathy for murderers and the worst of society and think they deserve to live out their lives in a fairly normal capacity like house arrest because they too donít deserve the shitty circumstance they current get.

  15. #155
    Rusty Larue

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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Gossett Jr View Post
    I just donít get your understanding of being a murderer. Current system you go to a shitty place for a long period of time, seems like itís the minimum that should occur if you commit murder. At first it seemed like in your eyes because the place is also shitty for a ton of people that donít belong to be in such shitty circumstances the whole thing should be shut down. However now it seems you also have sympathy for murderers and the worst of society and think they deserve to live out their lives in a fairly normal capacity like house arrest because they too donít deserve the shitty circumstance they current get.
    I donít think any person should be treated inhumanely. Period. Iím not really interested in what murderers ďdeserveĒ.

    I get the sentiment though and have stated that although I disagree with the sentiment, societal vengeance is the only intelligible argument for prisons Iíve heard.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by RChildress107 View Post
    I donít think any person should be treated inhumanely. Period. Iím not really interested in what murderers ďdeserveĒ.

    I get the sentiment though and have stated that although I disagree with the sentiment, societal vengeance is the only intelligible argument for prisons Iíve heard.
    Safety. Society is safer when killers arenít able to roam the streets.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by RChildress107 View Post
    So the theory is all murderers are would be serial killers if not for prisons depriving them of the opportunity to kill again (setting aside the fact that prisons donít actually do that)?

    Any support for that theory?
    Man you are good at strawman arguments.

  18. #158
    Rusty Larue

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    Quote Originally Posted by DistrictDeacon View Post
    Safety. Society is safer when killers arenít able to roam the streets.
    Killers are able to roam the streets now

  19. #159
    Rusty Larue

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    Quote Originally Posted by DistrictDeacon View Post
    Man you are good at strawman arguments.
    So there are some convicted murderers that wonít become serial killers if we let them roam the streets?

  20. #160
    I disagree with you
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    Any surprise this is the guy who lost his right to post on the sports board so he could defend Manning?

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