• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Police and Prison Abolition Thread

If you paid attention to what I have posted, I have repeatedly said we need new styles of prisons and methodologies for those incarcerated. I've said we don't need to keep an overwhelming majority of non-violent criminals in prison. I've stated we should move towards Portugal's drug policies.

There are some people who need to be in prison and some need not to have any bail.

The object should be to get done the things that are agreed upon and work on those we don't. This isn't something that can be done overnight or with one law.

I would love to see DAs and cops be liable for framing innocent people. My opinion is they should be considered guilty of kidnapping those who were framed and other serious repercussions.

Was this supposed to be a response to the post you quoted?
 
I would feel pretty confident in that statement as well.

The “what about murderers and rapists” has only ever been a theoretical conversation brought up by people trying to undermine the abolitionist framework for evaluating our prison system.

It's only a theoretical question because what you propose isn't a reality. And it's not intended to "undermine" your movement - it simply challenges you to grapple with the consequences of what you propose. I'm hoping you're aware - but there are undoubtedly negatives and tradeoffs in what you propose. And I don't know whether your proposals exist in any great detail, but there's no way to respond to them other than in generalities because you haven't stated anything concrete, detailed, or specific. You just say "I'd like a system that does X, Y, and Z." Ok, I guess. But that doesn't really go anywhere other than stating your generic criticism of our current system and what you'd in theory like to see.
 
I’m fine If we eliminate murders from the conversation in this new utopia with the agreement that certain actions within this utopian society remove you from society permanently, no need for prison we you cease to exist.
 
It's only a theoretical question because what you propose isn't a reality. And it's not intended to "undermine" your movement - it simply challenges you to grapple with the consequences of what you propose. I'm hoping you're aware - but there are undoubtedly negatives and tradeoffs in what you propose. And I don't know whether your proposals exist in any great detail, but there's no way to respond to them other than in generalities because you haven't stated anything concrete, detailed, or specific. You just say "I'd like a system that does X, Y, and Z." Ok, I guess. But that doesn't really go anywhere other than stating your generic criticism of our current system and what you'd in theory like to see.

How close are we to hypersleep pods:

Minority-Report-2.jpg


Minority-Report-3-300x117.jpg


And while we're at it, how close are we to pre-cogs?

I'd be down for both.
 
It's only a theoretical question because what you propose isn't a reality. And it's not intended to "undermine" your movement - it simply challenges you to grapple with the consequences of what you propose. I'm hoping you're aware - but there are undoubtedly negatives and tradeoffs in what you propose. And I don't know whether your proposals exist in any great detail, but there's no way to respond to them other than in generalities because you haven't stated anything concrete, detailed, or specific. You just say "I'd like a system that does X, Y, and Z." Ok, I guess. But that doesn't really go anywhere other than stating your generic criticism of our current system and what you'd in theory like to see.

“It’s never going to happen” is never a good argument that it shouldn’t happen.

Of course I realize there are trade offs. I’m confident that they will all result in far less harm to society than our current prison system. I’ve already stated that I think letting all prisoners walk free tomorrow without any plans in place to monitor them would be less harmful than our current system. I’m obviously not advocating for that, but it’s demonstrative of my awareness of the trade offs involved with abolishing prisons.

My proposal is very simple: Stop involuntarily confining people as a punishment for crime. What additional details do you need?
 
I don’t know just seems that nothing has been proposed that is the real world so we are going for the utopia where we believe everyone is inherently good, can change, etc... System sucks let’s change it is a good starting point but system sucks let’s tear it down with nothing real in its place seems pointless.
 
I don’t know just seems that nothing has been proposed that is the real world so we are going for the utopia where we believe everyone is inherently good, can change, etc... System sucks let’s change it is a good starting point but system sucks let’s tear it down with nothing real in its place seems pointless.


i already addressed this. I certainly don’t believe people are inherently good.

I do believe prisons are inherently bad and thus tearing that system down with nothing in place is far from pointless. That’s like saying we couldn’t get rid of our torture program with nothing real in its place.

I’m well aware that completely abolishing prisons is a pipe dream. This country elected Donald Trump less than two years ago. That’s got to put us at least 100 years away from having anything resembling a humane justice system. I do think that making people articulate exactly why they think we need prisons might at least lead to a less widespread and inhumane use of them.
 
I already said we don’t need prison for murderers, guy that kidnapped the 13 year old girl, killed her parents, confession, all the evidence possible, expedite and end his life. No prison needed.
 
Yeah we don’t need to kill him either. We might want to kill him, but we don’t need to.

Yeah. Probably should just release him and ask him to wear a GPS so they can find him after he kills another teen.

And then rinse and repeat.
 
Yeah. Probably should just release him and ask him to wear a GPS so they can find him after he kills another teen.

And then rinse and repeat.

So the theory is all murderers are would be serial killers if not for prisons depriving them of the opportunity to kill again (setting aside the fact that prisons don’t actually do that)?

Any support for that theory?
 
I just don’t get your understanding of being a murderer. Current system you go to a shitty place for a long period of time, seems like it’s the minimum that should occur if you commit murder. At first it seemed like in your eyes because the place is also shitty for a ton of people that don’t belong to be in such shitty circumstances the whole thing should be shut down. However now it seems you also have sympathy for murderers and the worst of society and think they deserve to live out their lives in a fairly normal capacity like house arrest because they too don’t deserve the shitty circumstance they current get.
 
I just don’t get your understanding of being a murderer. Current system you go to a shitty place for a long period of time, seems like it’s the minimum that should occur if you commit murder. At first it seemed like in your eyes because the place is also shitty for a ton of people that don’t belong to be in such shitty circumstances the whole thing should be shut down. However now it seems you also have sympathy for murderers and the worst of society and think they deserve to live out their lives in a fairly normal capacity like house arrest because they too don’t deserve the shitty circumstance they current get.

I don’t think any person should be treated inhumanely. Period. I’m not really interested in what murderers “deserve”.

I get the sentiment though and have stated that although I disagree with the sentiment, societal vengeance is the only intelligible argument for prisons I’ve heard.
 
I don’t think any person should be treated inhumanely. Period. I’m not really interested in what murderers “deserve”.

I get the sentiment though and have stated that although I disagree with the sentiment, societal vengeance is the only intelligible argument for prisons I’ve heard.

Safety. Society is safer when killers aren’t able to roam the streets.
 
So the theory is all murderers are would be serial killers if not for prisons depriving them of the opportunity to kill again (setting aside the fact that prisons don’t actually do that)?

Any support for that theory?

Man you are good at strawman arguments.
 
Any surprise this is the guy who lost his right to post on the sports board so he could defend Manning?
 
Back
Top