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Trump Directed His Attorney To Lie to Congress

I recognize that I may be projecting here, but I think many—maybe most—pubs in the Senate want Trump gone for one reason or another—some noble, some political. Not many of them are saying it out loud because they are scared of his base, but if the evidence is bad and they get rid of him on an overwhelming vote, the power of the base will be greatly diminished.

Lol.

And I guess 0 is technically “not many”
 
I recognize that I may be projecting here, but I think many—maybe most—pubs in the Senate want Trump gone for one reason or another—some noble, some political. Not many of them are saying it out loud because they are scared of his base, but if the evidence is bad and they get rid of him on an overwhelming vote, the power of the base will be greatly diminished.

cowards
 
I recognize that I may be projecting here, but I think many—maybe most—pubs in the Senate want Trump gone for one reason or another—some noble, some political. Not many of them are saying it out loud because they are scared of his base, but if the evidence is bad and they get rid of him on an overwhelming vote, the power of the base will be greatly diminished.

Diminished in the general election maybe, but not on the right. Turns out those gerrymandered congressional districts and state legislatures came at the cost of being beholden to the rubes. The Senate should be more reasonable, but this current Senate is actually more trump friendly than the previous one.
 
Do tell, what are my bullshit reasons?

Junebug, I get it. Your party is a raging dumpster fire of con-men, liars, toadies, and morons. One of your baseline political beliefs, supply-side economics, has been proven to be a sham. Nobody actually subscribes to the small-government principles that you hold dear. And your favorite Supreme Court Justices use your preferred system for Constitutional interpretation only when it fits their needs. The people who vote for your preferred candidates have turned out to be racist, misogynist, xenophobic dipshits prone to belief in insane conspiracy theories and a contempt for the scientific method.

In the face of an existential crisis about your fundamental beliefs, you have come up with a coping strategy of pretending to be above the fray and hanging your hat on purportedly high-minded ideals like "civility" and "doing the right thing." That sounds great, until it becomes apparent that:a) you only bitch about civility and doing the right thing when the ball is in the Democrats' court; and you can't actually quit the 'pubs, so you revert back to the "both sides" arguments that ignore the last 50+ years of American history.

You can't quit the Republican party, even though there is no evidence it actually represents your views. You can say that's not the case, but I'll bet a small sum of money that you pulled the lever for Ted Budd, Mark Walker, or whatever other 'pub that ran in your district this year.

I believe that the D's should impeach the President even if it turns out to somehow be politically costly. You make the argument for D's to do it because a piece of you hopes that it will be politically costly.
 
I recognize that I may be projecting here, but I think many—maybe most—pubs in the Senate want Trump gone for one reason or another—some noble, some political. Not many of them are saying it out loud because they are scared of his base, but if the evidence is bad and they get rid of him on an overwhelming vote, the power of the base will be greatly diminished.

Lol

Zero integrity.
 
Junebug, I get it. Your party is a raging dumpster fire of con-men, liars, toadies, and morons. One of your baseline political beliefs, supply-side economics, has been proven to be a sham. Nobody actually subscribes to the small-government principles that you hold dear. And your favorite Supreme Court Justices use your preferred system for Constitutional interpretation only when it fits their needs. The people who vote for your preferred candidates have turned out to be racist, misogynist, xenophobic dipshits prone to belief in insane conspiracy theories and a contempt for the scientific method.

In the face of an existential crisis about your fundamental beliefs, you have come up with a coping strategy of pretending to be above the fray and hanging your hat on purportedly high-minded ideals like "civility" and "doing the right thing." That sounds great, until it becomes apparent that:a) you only bitch about civility and doing the right thing when the ball is in the Democrats' court; and you can't actually quit the 'pubs, so you revert back to the "both sides" arguments that ignore the last 50+ years of American history.

You can't quit the Republican party, even though there is no evidence it actually represents your views. You can say that's not the case, but I'll bet a small sum of money that you pulled the lever for Ted Budd, Mark Walker, or whatever other 'pub that ran in your district this year.

I believe that the D's should impeach the President even if it turns out to somehow be politically costly. You make the argument for D's to do it because a piece of you hopes that it will be politically costly.

Could not be more spot on.
 
he's reprehensible im not sure i buy the argument that Pence is a carbon copy of donald trump.

No. But he’s a spineless weasel who wouldn’t want to anger the base.

Pence would be pretty impotent for the remainder of this term. Does anybody remember Gerald Ford's great accomplishments?

Pardoning Nixon.

I recognize that I may be projecting here, but I think many—maybe most—pubs in the Senate want Trump gone for one reason or another—some noble, some political. Not many of them are saying it out loud because they are scared of his base, but if the evidence is bad and they get rid of him on an overwhelming vote, the power of the base will be greatly diminished.

The base will vote in the primaries. The base will buy whatever Sinclair and their favorite conservative websites tell them and they’ll vote for them angriest white person who will promise to continue the legacy of Trump.
 
The base will vote in the primaries. The base will buy whatever Sinclair and their favorite conservative websites tell them and they’ll vote for them angriest white person who will promise to continue the legacy of Trump.


Fine by me. The base of the republican party can't win a presidential election (and by the looks of 2018, has trouble winning house and governor's races in any state that ain't DEEP red).

Do the right thing. Be authentic. Be honest about your beliefs. Don't act like an asshole. Do that as a democrat, and you can beat republicans in a national race. Don't be afraid of the boogeyman (conservative media), because the boogeyman no longer has much control over the middle, and 0 over the left.

Impeachment is the right thing to do. And forcing republicans to be on the wrong side of history yet again most likely will play well politically. But even if it doesn't, its still the correct choice.
 
Re: #1-- I might be jaded by social media, but there just might be 25-30% of the US population that will steadfastly refuse to believe any evidence that is shown.

More like 40% at this time, but yes, this is the problem. And I'm not jaded by social media, just plain jaded. That 40% gets its news from some combination of social media, Fox, One America, Rush Limbaugh and Alex Jones. And that's 1 of the main reasons that congressional Pubs, most of whom hate Trump, can't buck him.
 
Junebug, I get it. Your party is a raging dumpster fire of con-men, liars, toadies, and morons. One of your baseline political beliefs, supply-side economics, has been proven to be a sham. Nobody actually subscribes to the small-government principles that you hold dear. And your favorite Supreme Court Justices use your preferred system for Constitutional interpretation only when it fits their needs. The people who vote for your preferred candidates have turned out to be racist, misogynist, xenophobic dipshits prone to belief in insane conspiracy theories and a contempt for the scientific method.

In the face of an existential crisis about your fundamental beliefs, you have come up with a coping strategy of pretending to be above the fray and hanging your hat on purportedly high-minded ideals like "civility" and "doing the right thing." That sounds great, until it becomes apparent that:a) you only bitch about civility and doing the right thing when the ball is in the Democrats' court; and you can't actually quit the 'pubs, so you revert back to the "both sides" arguments that ignore the last 50+ years of American history.

You can't quit the Republican party, even though there is no evidence it actually represents your views. You can say that's not the case, but I'll bet a small sum of money that you pulled the lever for Ted Budd, Mark Walker, or whatever other 'pub that ran in your district this year.

I believe that the D's should impeach the President even if it turns out to somehow be politically costly. You make the argument for D's to do it because a piece of you hopes that it will be politically costly.

I went through a sort of semi-Junebug stage when I was intellectually divorcing the Republican party back in about 2008. It's a tough place to be. Breaking point for me was Sarah Palin. I could no longer be part of a group that thought she was fit to be one John McCain heart attack away from nuclear weapons.
 
More like 40% at this time, but yes, this is the problem. And I'm not jaded by social media, just plain jaded. That 40% gets its news from some combination of social media, Fox, One America, Rush Limbaugh and Alex Jones. And that's 1 of the main reasons that congressional Pubs, most of whom hate Trump, can't buck him.

The main reason is that they all put self before party before country.
 
Speaking of nukes, that's my answer to why Pence is preferable to Trump. I would feel a little more comfortable with Pence having the codes. Trump having unfettered access to nukes inspires me to pray and I'm 100% atheist.
 
Fine by me. The base of the republican party can't win a presidential election (and by the looks of 2018, has trouble winning house and governor's races in any state that ain't DEEP red).

Do the right thing. Be authentic. Be honest about your beliefs. Don't act like an asshole. Do that as a democrat, and you can beat republicans in a national race. Don't be afraid of the boogeyman (conservative media), because the boogeyman no longer has much control over the middle, and 0 over the left.

Impeachment is the right thing to do. And forcing republicans to be on the wrong side of history yet again most likely will play well politically. But even if it doesn't, its still the correct choice.

No, partisan impeachment doesn't play well politically. Why do you think Pubs were campaigning on that issue last year while Dem leadership was telling Dem candidates to STFU about impeachment? Even Nancy Fucking Pelosi got this. A failed impeachment proceeding isn't something that will make Dems in purple or reddish districts look good in 2020. Add in that a failed impeachment would harm or maybe even prevent a future criminal prosecution. I don't do criminal law. Any criminal attorneys care to speculate on double jeopardy attaching from an impeachment?
 
The main reason is that they all put self before party before country.

Well yeah, or they end up like Flake or Corker and either resign or lose in the primary. That said, I don't think self preservation is a political trait unique to the US Pub party.
 
Speaking of nukes, that's my answer to why Pence is preferable to Trump. I would feel a little more comfortable with Pence having the codes. Trump having unfettered access to nukes inspires me to pray and I'm 100% atheist.

I'd say foreign policy more generally and trade policy. Pence would be much more traditional and saner on both of those scores.

ITC, yes. Y'all are deluded if you think 20 Pub senators will cross over if impeachment charges are brought next week. And I can tell you that neither Luria in VA-2 nor Spanberger in VA-7 were campaigning last year on bringing impeachment charges against Trump. They were mostly campaigning on health care. For blue district Dems, that isn't a concern. But for all the Dems who win in purple and reddish districts, impeachment proceedings will not help them win re-election next year.
 
No, partisan impeachment doesn't play well politically. Why do you think Pubs were campaigning on that issue last year while Dem leadership was telling Dem candidates to STFU about impeachment? Even Nancy Fucking Pelosi got this. A failed impeachment proceeding isn't something that will make Dems in purple or reddish districts look good in 2020. Add in that a failed impeachment would harm or maybe even prevent a future criminal prosecution. I don't do criminal law. Any criminal attorneys care to speculate on double jeopardy attaching from an impeachment?

I think double jeopardy would turn closely on the DoJ's OLC opinion on whether a sitting president can be indicted. That opinion is debatable, but assuming the opinion that the only avenue against a sitting president is impeachment, then once the Senate is "sworn" as a jury on article of impeachment passed by the House, jeopardy would attach.
 
The problem is the word "Buzzfeed" -- hard to take it seriously. Call it "The Feed" or "Feed News, a Division of Buzzfeed" or "NewsFood, the News You Need To (Buzz)Feed On"

Definitely do not let Shoo brand BuzzFeed
 
No, partisan impeachment doesn't play well politically. Why do you think Pubs were campaigning on that issue last year while Dem leadership was telling Dem candidates to STFU about impeachment? Even Nancy Fucking Pelosi got this. A failed impeachment proceeding isn't something that will make Dems in purple or reddish districts look good in 2020. Add in that a failed impeachment would harm or maybe even prevent a future criminal prosecution. I don't do criminal law. Any criminal attorneys care to speculate on double jeopardy attaching from an impeachment?

Politics greater than doing whats right.
 
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