• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Institutional Malpractice

I like some of what bone is preaching. I would like to see our AD market/connect to the community better and get them more involved in a way that improves our Gameday atmosphere.
 
If Wellman is only concerned about the top 1%, there is a good chance he could care less who comes out to support Wake athletics.
 
DeacWatcher said:
If Wellman is only concerned about the top 1%, there is a good chance he could care less who comes out to support Wake athletics.
Click to expand...

It would take some very big checks to be more than a full Joel every game plus concessions and parking.
 
The hoops team doesn't deserve a full house right now. Clawson does.

That said, I have to say I was impressed w the crowd enthusiasm and player enthusiasm. Countered the narrative I've been part observing part assuming for the past month or so.
 
Tobacco Road said:
I like some of what bone is preaching. I would like to see our AD market/connect to the community better and get them more involved in a way that improves our Gameday atmosphere.
Click to expand...

Yes, for football this needs to be done. Soccer games sellout multiple times per year, but I can't recall a single full stadium since Clawson got here for football. Obviously 4500 is much less than 31,500 but most games its nowhere even close to 31,000. The community needs to be embraced, they're won't be 31,000 students, family, and alumni in the WS area to fill up the stands every game.
 
We lost to clemson at home 63-3 and at the end of that long homestand it look like our season was going nowhere. It would be great if we had a huge base of people who supported the team win or lose but it's just probably not going to happen.
 
The football team played like dogshit at home this past season. The home schedule was incredibly imbalanced (thanks Ron you fuckstick) and we got stuck with a bunch of noon games on Saturdays that were hot as balls. For a 6-6 squad this past season, the attendance was what it was. It’s not like we were chasing down a conference title. Going to any bowl looked well out of reach for a good chunk of the season.
 
PM Putin said:
The football team played like dogshit at home this past season. The home schedule was incredibly imbalanced (thanks Ron you fuckstick) and we got stuck with a bunch of noon games on Saturdays that were hot as balls. For a 6-6 squad this past season, the attendance was what it was. It’s not like we were chasing down a conference title. Going to any bowl looked well out of reach for a good chunk of the season.
Click to expand...

All true. Home schedule was terrible last year. Hope this season they do better with the start times.
 
6-6 with a marquee Thursday night win over NC STATE ! The team was completely uncompetitive in home games with Clemson and Notre Dame and played a grand total of one (1) competitive home game all year, on a Thursday night against BC, which was a loss. The Deacs also lost to every P5 (ACC) team they played at home this season and had one home win against FBS opponents this season (Rice).

You could argue that we were somewhat competitive against Syracuse and Pitt, but that's about it.

The football team stunk at home this year and the games weren't really worth watching, even when they won.
 
BiffTannen said:
6-6 with a marquee Thursday night win over NC STATE ! The team was completely uncompetitive in home games with Clemson and Notre Dame and played a grand total of one (1) competitive home game all year, on a Thursday night against BC, which was a loss. The Deacs also lost to every P5 (ACC) team they played at home this season and had one home win against FBS opponents this season (Rice).

You could argue that we were somewhat competitive against Syracuse and Pitt, but that's about it.

The football team stunk at home this year and the games weren't really worth watching, even when they won.
Click to expand...

But yeah, should've sold out every game and packed the house.
 
RacerDeac said:
So, Wellman retires June 1st. It takes the summer or more to hire a new AD. That's far too late to think about firing Manning. Even in June, the coaching market is dried up.

More likely, a new AD doesn't do any hiring or firing the first year while he/she gets comfortable and evaluates the staff. Plus, if Manning stays, many will transfer, so the new AD gives Manning a pass next year. That's two more years of Manning at the helm.
Click to expand...

If that’s true it means we fucked up the AD hire.
 
If Wellman retires in June, I’m not sure if we can get a quality AD willing to jump ship and start by August 1.
 
BiffTannen said:
But yeah, should've sold out every game and packed the house.
Click to expand...

Quoting yourself is a faux pas, isn't it? Like being the first to laugh at your own joke ...

But as I said, I am willing to give the past season a pass. I said that. The year before, not so much. The simple truth is that every coach and player wants to be wanted and appreciated. We go into next season with realistic expectations of 9 or 10 wins. Those are reasonable expectations. If we go into our Friday Night game at Utah State with 15,000 empty seats, or the Elon game with 15,000 empty seats and/or a stadium half full of Elon fans, that shit is noted by players and coaches alike.

The bandwagon has happened. Ron has done a shitty job of filling the bangwagon with locals, with non-elite businesses, with high school football teams, etc... He only seems to care that the catering table in the luxury box is fully stocked. HUGE MISTAKE. Clawson can't appreciate the luxury box spread from the sidelines. He be gone at the end of this year if we can't gin up the appropriate enthusiasm to accompany a top 35 football team. Clock is ticking.
 
jaybone said:
The question is does the success of football and to a lesser extent tennis, soccer, and baseball counterbalance the mistakes made in hoops? I think the answer is yes. I may not agree w it, but I also can't say Ron has thoroughly and completely sucked the last 10 yrs as AD. I'd like that narrative to be true but it just isn't.
Click to expand...

I truly don’t understand this position. I’m not sure what you do for a living, but I’d imagine that if you completely fucked up the most important part of your job your boss wouldn’t counterbalance that with the fact that you were competent at less important parts of your job.

Wellman inherited a great basketball program, nailed the first coaching transition, lost momentum with the second, colossally fucked up the third, and failed miserably to clean up his mess with the fourth.

You could argue that all the good he had done as an AD before [Redacted] earned him the right to try and fix his mistake (though I think he forfeited that right by keeping [Redacted] around for year 4). But as soon as he whiffed on the hire, plans should have been made for his exit. It baffles me that people seem comfortable with Wellman overseeing his fifth basketball coaching transition.
 
PhDeac said:
If Wellman retires in June, I’m not sure if we can get a quality AD willing to jump ship and start by August 1.
Click to expand...

Probably not. Whenever Wellman goes the board should hire a search committee and take their time. As long as Wellman announces by September, we should be able to get a quality AD in place to make a basketball hire next March.
 
RChildress107 said:
I truly don’t understand this position. I’m not sure what you do for a living, but I’d imagine that if you completely fucked up the most important part of your job your boss wouldn’t counterbalance that with the fact that you were competent at less important parts of your job.

Wellman inherited a great basketball program, nailed the first coaching transition, lost momentum with the second, colossally fucked up the third, and failed miserably to clean up his mess with the fourth.

You could argue that all the good he had done as an AD before [Redacted] earned him the right to try and fix his mistake (though I think he forfeited that right by keeping [Redacted] around for year 4). But as soon as he whiffed on the hire, plans should have been made for his exit. It baffles me that people seem comfortable with Wellman overseeing his fifth basketball coaching transition.
Click to expand...

Who is comfortable? Certainly not me. I argued for keeping Manning for THIS year for fear of Wellman hiring the next hoops coach.

All I am asking for is context. My argument is that in the current NCAA environment, despite our tradition in hoops, football is THE most important hire, so to ignore the Clawson hire, I feel, undermines anybody's argument for an AD change.

What I do - there are always hits and misses. Batting .500 is awesome. I get that coaching hires ideally need to NOT be a 50/50 coin flip.

When you argue for an AD change and ignore the full narrative, you really undermine your argument. That's true on company boards, op-eds - in just about everything. If you want to force change, the approach simply MUST be disciplined and come from a non-emotional base. That hasn't happened here. We saw what happened when we all got emotional on getting Bzd gone. It's like nobody has learned from that mistake and are perfectly willing to make all of those same fuckups all over again.

Wellman is an elitist non-dynamic haughty leader who caters to our top 50 alumni. He has focused on the perception of growth and leadership the last 10 years and despite a mostly rudderless ship, it has resulted in an explosion of facilities that will essentially be his legacy. He also parlayed his early successes into national leadership NCAA-wise. Not sure how or why. I do think he has somehow either figured out or made the right hires and we have essentially nailed the student-athlete piece of the puzzle. We have done a remarkable job of not losing players to academic ineligibility for the better part of the last decade.

It is time for him to go. I am now resigned to the fact that he will make the next basketball hire. I am not hopeful, but he has made good football, soccer, tennis, and baseball hires so I pray he sees how this will be half of his legacy if he fucks it up a third time. I think a lot of people connected to the program as donors who bristle at the declaration that Wellman has thoroughly shat the bed the last decade as AD. He's messed up basketball. His deficiencies as a leader - the lack of transparency, the full throttled support that is, at best, disingenuous, have been really revealed as it related to our basketball program.

Just stick to hoops, the overall lack of enthusiasm amongst the wide base as it related to butts in seats, acknowledge the good stuff he's done. Otherwise, you are spitting in the wind.
 
jaybone said:
Quoting yourself is a faux pas, isn't it? Like being the first to laugh at your own joke ...

But as I said, I am willing to give the past season a pass. I said that. The year before, not so much. The simple truth is that every coach and player wants to be wanted and appreciated. We go into next season with realistic expectations of 9 or 10 wins. Those are reasonable expectations. If we go into our Friday Night game at Utah State with 15,000 empty seats, or the Elon game with 15,000 empty seats and/or a stadium half full of Elon fans, that shit is noted by players and coaches alike.

The bandwagon has happened. Ron has done a shitty job of filling the bangwagon with locals, with non-elite businesses, with high school football teams, etc... He only seems to care that the catering table in the luxury box is fully stocked. HUGE MISTAKE. Clawson can't appreciate the luxury box spread from the sidelines. He be gone at the end of this year if we can't gin up the appropriate enthusiasm to accompany a top 35 football team. Clock is ticking.
Click to expand...

I hope Clawson has such a good season that big programs finally come after him. It hasn’t happened yet. Oh yeah, it’s been 40 years since we lost a football coach to a better program. Not something I’m going to lose sleep over.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Clawson was 2-14 his first two years. I don't think he's going to go anywhere but he's certainly put together a good season next year and he could get another job at a p5 school
Click to expand...

22-17 with three bowl wins the last three years at a school with little history of football success. He will be attractive to some school.
 
BiffTannen said:
6-6 with a marquee Thursday night win over NC STATE ! The team was completely uncompetitive in home games with Clemson and Notre Dame and played a grand total of one (1) competitive home game all year, on a Thursday night against BC, which was a loss. The Deacs also lost to every P5 (ACC) team they played at home this season and had one home win against FBS opponents this season (Rice).

You could argue that we were somewhat competitive against Syracuse and Pitt, but that's about it.

The football team stunk at home this year and the games weren't really worth watching, even when they won.
Click to expand...

I was 0-4 watching the football Deacs live this year, all blowout losses.
 
jaybone said:
Who is comfortable? Certainly not me. I argued for keeping Manning for THIS year for fear of Wellman hiring the next hoops coach.

All I am asking for is context. My argument is that in the current NCAA environment, despite our tradition in hoops, football is THE most important hire, so to ignore the Clawson hire, I feel, undermines anybody's argument for an AD change.

What I do - there are always hits and misses. Batting .500 is awesome. I get that coaching hires ideally need to NOT be a 50/50 coin flip.

When you argue for an AD change and ignore the full narrative, you really undermine your argument. That's true on company boards, op-eds - in just about everything. If you want to force change, the approach simply MUST be disciplined and come from a non-emotional base. That hasn't happened here. We saw what happened when we all got emotional on getting Bzd gone. It's like nobody has learned from that mistake and are perfectly willing to make all of those same fuckups all over again.

Wellman is an elitist non-dynamic haughty leader who caters to our top 50 alumni. He has focused on the perception of growth and leadership the last 10 years and despite a mostly rudderless ship, it has resulted in an explosion of facilities that will essentially be his legacy. He also parlayed his early successes into national leadership NCAA-wise. Not sure how or why. I do think he has somehow either figured out or made the right hires and we have essentially nailed the student-athlete piece of the puzzle. We have done a remarkable job of not losing players to academic ineligibility for the better part of the last decade.

It is time for him to go. I am now resigned to the fact that he will make the next basketball hire. I am not hopeful, but he has made good football, soccer, tennis, and baseball hires so I pray he sees how this will be half of his legacy if he fucks it up a third time. I think a lot of people connected to the program as donors who bristle at the declaration that Wellman has thoroughly shat the bed the last decade as AD. He's messed up basketball. His deficiencies as a leader - the lack of transparency, the full throttled support that is, at best, disingenuous, have been really revealed as it related to our basketball program.

Just stick to hoops, the overall lack of enthusiasm amongst the wide base as it related to butts in seats, acknowledge the good stuff he's done. Otherwise, you are spitting in the wind.
Click to expand...

Some posters appear comfortable with Wellman making the next hire; my apologies for mistaking you as one of them.

No one is ignoring what Wellman has done re: facilities, football, and non-revenue sports. We are just putting those accomplishments into proper context.

Facilities: Wellman has merely kept up with the Joneses, and belatedly so. However, that in and of itself is an accomplishment at Wake given some of the institutional challenges so I’ll give him a B+ in that regard.

Soccer: Hard to know how much credit Wellman deserves here. He did what 99% of AD’s would do in 1994 and promoted Vidovich who then went on to build the program to what it is now. He nailed the Muus hire, but that feels like low hanging fruit. It’s also soccer. He gets an A but this was a pretty easy course.

Olympic Sports: I don’t care enough to look it up but my guess is that over his tenure we’ve been about middle of the pack in the ACC in this regard, especially if you exclude soccer. This one is pass/fail and he gets a pass.

Football: If you are going to claim that in the current NCAA environment football is most important, then our program should be judged against that environment, not our own lackluster history. In that regard, it’s hard to give Wellman higher than a C+. Clawson’s progress stalled a little last year and at any P5 school even semi-serious about football his seat would be getting lukewarm.

Basketball: F-

If he had As on everything else then maybe we could talk about whether that balances out his utter failure with the basketball program, but he doesn’t. He should have been fired the day after the Manning hire at the very latest.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top