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Is Zion Done at Duke?

In my day, once you turned 18 "you were old enough to fight (except Trump, Cheney, Clinton et al) but not to vote. Now you can fight, vote, but you can't play in the NBA. Ridiculous rules designed to save NBA teams money by decreasing their opportunity to whiff on high schoolers. I say let them whiff. A kid at 18 should be able to earn a living and play for millions in the NBA if talent worthy and not just overseas.
 
Here’s a hot take for you. K is playing 5-D chess. Keep Zion out for the UNC and ACCT games and announce that Zion will be fully back for the NCAAT so any losses between now and selection Sunday won’t be counted against them for seeding purposes. Secure a 1 seed and profit.
 
DeacDoug said:
In my day, once you turned 18 "you were old enough to fight (except Trump, Cheney, Clinton et al) but not to vote. Now you can fight, vote, but you can't play in the NBA. Ridiculous rules designed to save NBA teams money by decreasing their opportunity to whiff on high schoolers. I say let them whiff. A kid at 18 should be able to earn a living and play for millions in the NBA if talent worthy and not just overseas.
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These kids can play in the NCAAT and not even buy a beer !
 
Frosty said:
Here’s a hot take for you. K is playing 5-D chess. Keep Zion out for the UNC and ACCT games and announce that Zion will be fully back for the NCAAT so any losses between now and selection Sunday won’t be counted against them for seeding purposes. Secure a 1 seed and profit.
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Would not be surprised if the committee puts Duke as a 1 seed even if they lose to UNC (which seems likely), and loses a game in the ACCT.
 
Frosty said:
Here’s a hot take for you. K is playing 5-D chess. Keep Zion out for the UNC and ACCT games and announce that Zion will be fully back for the NCAAT so any losses between now and selection Sunday won’t be counted against them for seeding purposes. Secure a 1 seed and profit.
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This is a very real take.
 
RJKarl said:
This is a very real take.
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Oh it definitely is. Would not be surprised to see Zion sit out until the NCAAT and the committee gives them a 1 seed despite possibly losing 2 games between now and then because they didn’t have Zion.
 
RJKarl said:
Harry Giles was the consensus #1 pick before his last injury. He dropped to #19 and his career will never be the same. It doesn't make sense for Zion to take such a risk when there is virtually no reward for playing.
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Harry Giles had two major injuries in high school. NBA GMs and scouts want to see that you can play competitive basketball without sustaining major injuries. They also want to seem some productivity when you are not injured. Giles did not demonstrate either of these, which is why he dropped. It's not all about perceived talent.
 
DeacDiggler said:
His Wikipedia entry:


Those are the highlights of his college career, when he was healthy.
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Debatable that he was healthy that season. He sat his entire rookie year to recover from injuries (at least that was the stated reason). He has had a few decent NBA games. Not that I am rooting for him, as I am not.
 
DeacDoug said:
In my day, once you turned 18 "you were old enough to fight (except Trump, Cheney, Clinton et al) but not to vote. Now you can fight, vote, but you can't play in the NBA. Ridiculous rules designed to save NBA teams money by decreasing their opportunity to whiff on high schoolers. I say let them whiff. A kid at 18 should be able to earn a living and play for millions in the NBA if talent worthy and not just overseas.
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This is changing, and will likely be lowered to 18 by the 2022 draft https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nba/article226633644.html

Eliminating the 1 and done "requirement" (it's more of a de facto requirement, since kids could play in Europe or China) will be good for college bball. I think it will be very interesting to see how many high school players take the $125,000 G league salary once it goes into effect vs going to college. This will essentially give us the value placed on a year in college for elite players.
 
Rafi said:
Harry Giles had two major injuries in high school. NBA GMs and scouts want to see that you can play competitive basketball without sustaining major injuries. They also want to seem some productivity when you are not injured. Giles did not demonstrate either of these, which is why he dropped. It's not all about perceived talent.
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The better narrative on Giles is that NBA scouts value your junior season of high school enough to completely disregard two crap years after an injury if you have the right attributes.
 
Rafi said:
Harry Giles had two major injuries in high school. NBA GMs and scouts want to see that you can play competitive basketball without sustaining major injuries. They also want to seem some productivity when you are not injured. Giles did not demonstrate either of these, which is why he dropped. It's not all about perceived talent.
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There is no real comparison between the two situations. Harry Giles played 300 minutes in college and scored all of 102 points. Zion Williamson surpassed the point total in his 5th college game - against Wake. And he did it in less than half the minutes played. Williamson has played almost 2.5 times as many minutes in college as Giles. There is just no comparison.
 
It’s weird to see people talk about getting rid of one and done as if it didn’t replace high schoolers going straight to the NBA. We don’t have to see what K will do. He already did it.
 
This isn't about Zion, it's about K and his legacy. This may very well be his last good chance for a national title. No way Zion ain't coming back. If for some reason he doesn't K will get a current high schooler to reclassify in time for the big dance. You can do anything these days at that fine academic institution in Durham
 
Rafi said:
Harry Giles had two major injuries in high school. NBA GMs and scouts want to see that you can play competitive basketball without sustaining major injuries. They also want to seem some productivity when you are not injured. Giles did not demonstrate either of these, which is why he dropped. It's not all about perceived talent.
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His injuries caused the drop in value for Giles. He was never the same after the second injury. That's the point.

Zion's biggest asset is his freakish athleticism. He is in a weakened place right now due to his injury. He is more likely to have another injury at this point than if he waited to return...waited until he he is getting paid.

There is no value in him playing another second at Duke, but there is a downside.
 
WRS said:
Does Zion even give a shit about Duke at all? He’s been there what 6 months maybe? He didn’t grow up a Duke fan or anything he was just looking for a short term landing spot to hang out for 9 months before the NBA.
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Isn't this true for most/all one and dones? I think this is what's ruining the college game.
 
Let's keep in perspective that Zion has a knee sprain, not a torn patellar tendon or 90% blockage in his common carotid artery.
 
This discussion reminds us of what a truly remarkable student-athlete Tim Duncan was!
 
HoosierDeac said:
Isn't this true for most/all one and dones? I think this is what's ruining the college game.
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I don't know that it has ruined the college game, but it certainly does not enhance the college game. It has enhanced Kentucky and Duke, otoh. But the reason for the NBA's rule in the 1st place was not to help the NCAA. It was to help the NBA. You had the occasional LeBron back in the day, but more often you had guys with great potential washing out of the league too quickly. The NBA wanted the rule to get a look at a prospect with 1 more year of development at a college away from the kid's home. It's like a year at a hoops finishing school like Oak Hill but on steroids. In that year, the prospect has worked a lot with a college strength coach, hopefully a good college coach and has gotten used to the travel and grind to better prepare that prospect overall for what the NBA is going to be like. The NBA will be changing its current rule, but that's going to make it even more of a crap shoot for NBA GMs.
 
cville deac said:
I don't know that it has ruined the college game, but it certainly does not enhance the college game. It has enhanced Kentucky and Duke, otoh. But the reason for the NBA's rule in the 1st place was not to help the NCAA. It was to help the NBA. You had the occasional LeBron back in the day, but more often you had guys with great potential washing out of the league too quickly. The NBA wanted the rule to get a look at a prospect with 1 more year of development at a college away from the kid's home. It's like a year at a hoops finishing school like Oak Hill but on steroids. In that year, the prospect has worked a lot with a college strength coach, hopefully a good college coach and has gotten used to the travel and grind to better prepare that prospect overall for what the NBA is going to be like. The NBA will be changing its current rule, but that's going to make it even more of a crap shoot for NBA GMs.
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The High School plus a year rule was mostly to protect NBA GM's and scouts. For every LeBron, there have been multiple Kwame Brown's. With the G-League, the NBA can now do its own first year player development. The kids who don't want to be in college have someplace to play for pay once they finish high school.
 
mebanedeac said:
This discussion reminds us of what a truly remarkable student-athlete Tim Duncan was!
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Tim was amazing for coming back in spite of being the projected #1 pick multiple times. However, it was a completely different world in that era. That year 18 of the 28 first round picks were seniors that year. Twenty of the second round picks were also seniors.

Remember, HSers could go pro in that year, but only T-Mac chose to do that.
 
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