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Criticism of Religions..Criticism of Christianity.Criticism of Islam..

I do reject the notion that religion generally and Christianity particularly are only or always negative influences.

I also agree that when religious teachings call for adherents to show their faithfulness by rejecting evidence or readily apparent reality then the balance of effects often tilts towards harm.
 
No they don’t.

But they do tend to claim a high degree of confidence about what they would argue is an understanding of God based upon “revealed” truth.

And tend to label that understanding as “orthodox” to contrast with what they’d argue are less accurate understandings.
 
I think the most obvious criteria for judging a religion are its teachings

This is like saying we should judge Manning by what he tells us he teaches in his press conferences instead of how the players perform on the court.

It also doesn't line up with scripture at all. Jesus regularly warns his followers about false prophets, people who know the Word and seem like the know and follow the teachings of Christ, but they do not bear the fruit of the Spirit.

[h=1]Matthew 7:15-20[/h]
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
 
Surprised this hasn't been posted here.

"If you support the Catholic Church, isn't that the same thing as being an R. Kelly fan?"

 
Supporting the catholic church is worse. At least R Kelly actually exists.
 
I hope he doesn’t apologize this time.

A catholic school in KC just denied a kindergartener with gay parents. Fuck them forever.
 
No they don’t.

But they do tend to claim a high degree of confidence about what they would argue is an understanding of God based upon “revealed” truth.

And tend to label that understanding as “orthodox” to contrast with what they’d argue are less accurate understandings.

Evangelicals believe the revealed truth, "spirituality," is different for everyone. That's why they end up with so many interpretations of the same text. There is nothing orthodox about that. It opens the door to the prosperity gospel and so much other nonsense.
 
Man, I wish I could be this certain about anything, much less matters of faith.

Perhaps more nuance is appropriate. I know that I don’t know the answer to the single greatest mystery in the history of humanity. That’s where I fall. Maybe there is a “higher power.” I don’t know, but I’m open to that. However, I am quite confident that none of the religious “leaders” know/knew those answers either. And I find the proposition that people 2000 years ago who didn’t understand science that today would be considered 1st grade level had a better basis for those answers.
 
I’m not trying to do anything other than set forth what I learned was Christian orthodoxy.


Perhaps.

But the simplest understanding of “orthodoxy” is “right belief” or right thinking. So when you add that term to bolster your argument you are appealing to a sort of authority, or implying there’s a broad consensus that your belief or proposition is right and whatever you are arguing against is wrong. In this particular instance, some notion of “free will”. I understand very well what you are saying. And just would point out that neither reason nor scripture nor Christian theology, taken collectively, allows a simple consensus about much of this.

Anyhow, most everyone strives to understand things “rightly”. Even an ardent atheist “believes” what he/she thinks is right or true. We all do. About this, we have no choice.
 
Perhaps more nuance is appropriate. I know that I don’t know the answer to the single greatest mystery in the history of humanity. That’s where I fall. Maybe there is a “higher power.” I don’t know, but I’m open to that. However, I am quite confident that none of the religious “leaders” know/knew those answers either. And I find the proposition that people 2000 years ago who didn’t understand science that today would be considered 1st grade level had a better basis for those answers.

Exhibit A of what is generally named “chronological conceit”

Nice how you tossed out the entire Mediterranean- Hellenistic and Roman influence on civilization..without which it would be doubtful we’d be having this conversation. As well the scholars of the Talmudic and Rabbinical traditions..

Fact is..life was very real back then and bullshit, though always en vogue, was not as persuasive to those who grew up in the spirit of the age of philosophy which had spread across the Greco-Roman Empire.
 
How do you figure?
 
I think it’s even worse than you suggest. It’s not that they didn’t understand 2nd grade science. It’s that they didn’t even have a conception of what science was, at least as we understand it today.

That said, despite this—or maybe because of it?—it is quite possible that they had a better conception of what being a human being was.

The Greeks had a far more plausible supposition on the divine than anything in the Bible. The Christian god, the god of the Bible, has multiple personality disorder. The Greeks handled the cruel stochasticity of life, not by creating a single simultaneously loving but wrathful deity, Instead they had many powerful gods, each with their only quirky, human like personality.
 
I don’t think it’s that simple. People of all stripes—religious, irreligious, and areligious—deceive themselves (or let themselves be deceived) all the time when it comes to matters of faith.

Perhaps. As can be councils of people. And that has no bearing on what I said.

People do indeed believe that which seems right or true to them.

Whether or not they claim their belief to be more broadly “orthodox”.
 
Gay Muslim: Islam Is No Religion of Peace

https://www.thedailybeast.com/gay-muslim-islam-is-no-religion-of-peace

““What’s his name?” I asked my husband as he woke me to tell me of the carnage in Orlando. “It’s going to be a Muslim name.”

I just knew it. I had never been one to racially profile my own community. But this time my premonition was right.

This is who the left wing remains silent about..the true aspects of living under Islam.

“I’ve spent the last decade of my life making two films. The first, A Jihad For Love, is about the lives of gay Muslims throughout the world. The second, A Sinner In Mecca, dealt with my own personal journey and my effort to reconcile my faith and my sexuality in Islam’s holiest places, surrounded by people who would sooner see me publicly beaten, thrown off a cliff or beheaded.”

And what does the Left have to say about any of this behaviour.. “Meh” and then point at a Colorado confectioner as sinister for not baking somebody a cake.

People with common sense can see the truth of the matter.
 
So, just to be clear, it's a good thing that those 50 Muslims in NZ were killed by a white supremacist. Right, lectro? Or are you still arguing, despite all the actual evidence, that the shooter is a left-wing fascist? I've lost track of your cut-and-paste posts from extreme right-wing websites.
 
Lectro on here excitedly posting anti Islam sentiments while the bodies from then NZ massacre are still warm.

And catamount/sailor defend this guy?

Trumpers have zero shame.
 
Lectro on here excitedly posting anti Islam sentiments while the bodies from then NZ massacre are still warm.

And catamount/sailor defend this guy?

Trumpers have zero shame.

It’s like whenever there’s a terrorist attack in some European city you used to have jhmd and sailor giddily posting “religion of peace!” while the smoke was still clearing and we knew nothing
 
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