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Are you pleased with the direction of Wake Forest under Hatch

Childress64

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Yesterday was just another example of a hit on the University I grew up loving. I don't see that Wake Forest has growth under him. It appears that we fall into the category of just trying to being "Politically correct" without real substance. I think it is time for Hatch to go.
 
Did OP attend wake? Either way this thread’s headed off a cliff
 
That goes right there with our failure to continue our baptist ways, all down hill since we took god out of the school.
 
As I just posted: if the university you loved was a backwater, barely regional Baptist school, then I for one don't miss it.

By the time I attended Wake in the mid 90s, it was clearly a top regional private school with ambitions to grow and move up the rankings in all ways. Hatch has raised huge amounts of cash, led a big building boom, upgraded the faculty and overall student experience, and established a downtown presence and a new engineering program. So if you hate all that, maybe your fandom should be directed at a nice, quaint school with no ambitions, like Davidson or Wofford. Elon is probably too edgy and aggressive for you. Personally I'm glad that the value of my degrees has increased significantly since I graduated, and Hatch has a lot to do with that.

The things that I miss about "old Wake Forest" mainly have to do with the athletic program. While I put some of that on Hatch for allowing Wellman to hang on this long, a lot of it - basically, ACC expansion and overall conference realignment - was going to happen no matter who was sitting in the President's chair.
 
That goes right there with our failure to continue our baptist ways, all down hill since we took god out of the school.

Yep, it all started when the NC Baptist Convention stopping donating their $20k a year because Shorty's sold alcohol. Will someone please think of the children?
 
Davidson & Wofford are prolly too edgy for the OP.

I might recommend Campbell, Charleston Southern or Bob Jones
 
Heavens to Betsy, will someone PLEASE think of the children!!??
 
is this just a coded way of the OP saying they didn't like the idea of hiring a black guy?
 
I agree with OP. I can't believe we suspended the volleyball coach without first hearing his side of the story regarding his federal indictment.
 
Very unhappy - it should cost a lot more than $100K to get a kid off the wait list. Never going to be a truly elite university if we keep pandering to new money.
 
I agree with OP. I can't believe we suspended the volleyball coach without first hearing his side of the story regarding his federal indictment.

Who says we didn't when confronted with the evidence ?
 
As I just posted: if the university you loved was a backwater, barely regional Baptist school, then I for one don't miss it.

By the time I attended Wake in the mid 90s, it was clearly a top regional private school with ambitions to grow and move up the rankings in all ways. Hatch has raised huge amounts of cash, led a big building boom, upgraded the faculty and overall student experience, and established a downtown presence and a new engineering program. So if you hate all that, maybe your fandom should be directed at a nice, quaint school with no ambitions, like Davidson or Wofford. Elon is probably too edgy and aggressive for you. Personally I'm glad that the value of my degrees has increased significantly since I graduated, and Hatch has a lot to do with that.

The things that I miss about "old Wake Forest" mainly have to do with the athletic program. While I put some of that on Hatch for allowing Wellman to hang on this long, a lot of it - basically, ACC expansion and overall conference realignment - was going to happen no matter who was sitting in the President's chair.

I agree with this. Hatch has done an objectively solid job. The older sorts on here, me included, often lament some of the changes. And there are things I miss about the Wake Forest I knew as a student, but the overall result has been positive. The amount of money raised, the transformation of campus, Wake Downtown, a more diverse student population, etc. are all positives. And sports have been pretty solid too...the new facilities are amazing and results are pretty solid sans basketball. That is the glaring issue, for sure. And the scandal is centered on one dude and shouldn't be viewed as a Wake or Hatch issue. In fact, it is oddly good for Wake...that it is reported as one of the elite places people were cheating to try to get into.

4 years ago or so I had the same qualms as many on here probably do/did. I lamented the changes and feared that the Wake I knew and loved as a student would become unrecognizable. Then my daughter entered Wake and I got to see it through her eyes...and it has been her greatest experience too, just like me. Her experience is different, because Wake is different. But she loves it. At the heart of it, Wake is still Wake. A unique place, IMO, unlike nearly any other place. The Hatch Era has seen our national reputation grow and Wake students are in demand more than ever before. But the school itself hasn't really changed that much at its core. I think I graduated with 1000 folks and my daughter will graduate with about 1250. I grant that is 25% larger, but in raw numbers it is pretty close and I suspect students can't tell the difference in size at all. My daughter has never had a class larger than 40 and her classes currently range in the 8-15 range. The fears that we were growing too much and pursuing becoming Vandy or Duke were/are misplaced, imo. The result seems to be that Wake is what it always has been...the best of both worlds. A small intimate college with the reach of a research university. Are we as quaint as Davidson? No. And are we as big a national presence as Duke? No. But the opposite is true...we have a larger national reach than Davidson and intimacy that Duke doesn't. Always hard for me to put into words what it is...but Wake is just special. And it seems to me, that is still the case.

One more thing...my wife, family, and I still live here in Winston. Hatch's leadership in expanding the footprint of the school downtown is absolutely huge. The Wake-led innovation quarter has transformed that part of downtown and has had a ripple effect across the entirety of downtown. Without the med school and Inmar and others moving into that area, I just don't see the renaissance of downtown happening as vigorously. And with the eventual departure of BB&T and the continued weakening of RJR, Wake Forest is the single most important entity in the city. So as a resident, I see the Hatch Era as positive through that local lens too.
 
I agree with this. Hatch has done an objectively solid job. The older sorts on here, me included, often lament some of the changes. And there are things I miss about the Wake Forest I knew as a student, but the overall result has been positive. The amount of money raised, the transformation of campus, Wake Downtown, a more diverse student population, etc. are all positives. And sports have been pretty solid too...the new facilities are amazing and results are pretty solid sans basketball. That is the glaring issue, for sure. And the scandal is centered on one dude and shouldn't be viewed as a Wake or Hatch issue. In fact, it is oddly good for Wake...that it is reported as one of the elite places people were cheating to try to get into.

4 years ago or so I had the same qualms as many on here probably do/did. I lamented the changes and feared that the Wake I knew and loved as a student would become unrecognizable. Then my daughter entered Wake and I got to see it through her eyes...and it has been her greatest experience too, just like me. Her experience is different, because Wake is different. But she loves it. At the heart of it, Wake is still Wake. A unique place, IMO, unlike nearly any other place. The Hatch Era has seen our national reputation grow and Wake students are in demand more than ever before. But the school itself hasn't really changed that much at its core. I think I graduated with 1000 folks and my daughter will graduate with about 1250. I grant that is 25% larger, but in raw numbers it is pretty close and I suspect students can't tell the difference in size at all. My daughter has never had a class larger than 40 and her classes currently range in the 8-15 range. The fears that we were growing too much and pursuing becoming Vandy or Duke were/are misplaced, imo. The result seems to be that Wake is what it always has been...the best of both worlds. A small intimate college with the reach of a research university. Are we as quaint as Davidson? No. And are we as big a national presence as Duke? No. But the opposite is true...we have a larger national reach than Davidson and intimacy that Duke doesn't. Always hard for me to put into words what it is...but Wake is just special. And it seems to me, that is still the case.

One more thing...my wife, family, and I still live here in Winston. Hatch's leadership in expanding the footprint of the school downtown is absolutely huge. The Wake-led innovation quarter has transformed that part of downtown and has had a ripple effect across the entirety of downtown. Without the med school and Inmar and others moving into that area, I just don't see the renaissance of downtown happening as vigorously. And with the eventual departure of BB&T and the continued weakening of RJR, Wake Forest is the single most important entity in the city. So as a resident, I see the Hatch Era as positive through that local lens too.

Thank you for posting that, and I'll accept it all as true, even though I was surprised to read a lot of it. I wasn't under the impression that we had risen in national reputation, but again, I'll accept it as true assuming you have a basis for saying that. The reason I say thanks for posting is that I have a pretty negative opinion of President Hatch, and your post at least gives me hope that I'm wrong.
 
I agree with this. Hatch has done an objectively solid job. The older sorts on here, me included, often lament some of the changes. And there are things I miss about the Wake Forest I knew as a student, but the overall result has been positive. The amount of money raised, the transformation of campus, Wake Downtown, a more diverse student population, etc. are all positives. And sports have been pretty solid too...the new facilities are amazing and results are pretty solid sans basketball. That is the glaring issue, for sure. And the scandal is centered on one dude and shouldn't be viewed as a Wake or Hatch issue. In fact, it is oddly good for Wake...that it is reported as one of the elite places people were cheating to try to get into.

4 years ago or so I had the same qualms as many on here probably do/did. I lamented the changes and feared that the Wake I knew and loved as a student would become unrecognizable. Then my daughter entered Wake and I got to see it through her eyes...and it has been her greatest experience too, just like me. Her experience is different, because Wake is different. But she loves it. At the heart of it, Wake is still Wake. A unique place, IMO, unlike nearly any other place. The Hatch Era has seen our national reputation grow and Wake students are in demand more than ever before. But the school itself hasn't really changed that much at its core. I think I graduated with 1000 folks and my daughter will graduate with about 1250. I grant that is 25% larger, but in raw numbers it is pretty close and I suspect students can't tell the difference in size at all. My daughter has never had a class larger than 40 and her classes currently range in the 8-15 range. The fears that we were growing too much and pursuing becoming Vandy or Duke were/are misplaced, imo. The result seems to be that Wake is what it always has been...the best of both worlds. A small intimate college with the reach of a research university. Are we as quaint as Davidson? No. And are we as big a national presence as Duke? No. But the opposite is true...we have a larger national reach than Davidson and intimacy that Duke doesn't. Always hard for me to put into words what it is...but Wake is just special. And it seems to me, that is still the case.

One more thing...my wife, family, and I still live here in Winston. Hatch's leadership in expanding the footprint of the school downtown is absolutely huge. The Wake-led innovation quarter has transformed that part of downtown and has had a ripple effect across the entirety of downtown. Without the med school and Inmar and others moving into that area, I just don't see the renaissance of downtown happening as vigorously. And with the eventual departure of BB&T and the continued weakening of RJR, Wake Forest is the single most important entity in the city. So as a resident, I see the Hatch Era as positive through that local lens too.

This is all good to hear.

At the same time, I don't like the student body growth. Over the last 40 years undergraduate population has grown from around 3200 to over 5100. That is a 60% jump. At 3200 we were truly unique among elite universities with Div. 1 athletics. We are not quite so unique anymore - and I fear that the growth will continue. Has Duke grown its enrollment at all over the last 40 years? What is motivating the growth? The student body growth carries with it the building boom. The new buildings are awesome and beautiful but there is no doubt the campus is losing its pastoral feel and becoming much more crowded.

I don't like the fact that Wake has become so expensive. It has killed the school as a goal for the middle class and upper middle class - you either have to be quite wealthy, quite needy, or quite talented to be able to afford it. That is a shame. I went to school with a lot of smart middle-class kids who went on to be quite successful - I don't believe that a single one of the people I knew well at school has sent their children to Wake.

I was really surprised to hear about the addition of an engineering program and think it is misguided. It doesn't seem to fit Wake's profile at all. What was the motivation there?
 
Wake's tuition expense is part of a larger problem of private schools becoming unattainable for middle and even upper middle class people. That is a debate for another day.
 
Wake's tuition expense is part of a larger problem of private schools becoming unattainable for middle and even upper middle class people. That is a debate for another day.

agree in part with your first sentence; however, tuition at WF is more expensive than Harvard, MIT, Stanford, to name a few
 
This is all good to hear.

At the same time, I don't like the student body growth. Over the last 40 years undergraduate population has grown from around 3200 to over 5100. That is a 60% jump. At 3200 we were truly unique among elite universities with Div. 1 athletics. We are not quite so unique anymore - and I fear that the growth will continue. Has Duke grown its enrollment at all over the last 40 years? What is motivating the growth? The student body growth carries with it the building boom. The new buildings are awesome and beautiful but there is no doubt the campus is losing its pastoral feel and becoming much more crowded.

I don't like the fact that Wake has become so expensive. It has killed the school as a goal for the middle class and upper middle class - you either have to be quite wealthy, quite needy, or quite talented to be able to afford it. That is a shame. I went to school with a lot of smart middle-class kids who went on to be quite successful - I don't believe that a single one of the people I knew well at school has sent their children to Wake.

I was really surprised to hear about the addition of an engineering program and think it is misguided. It doesn't seem to fit Wake's profile at all. What was the motivation there?

I$ it really nece$$ary to a$k thi$ que$tion?

On a serious note, there's no doubt Wake's academic reputation has gotten stronger in the last thirty years or so. I think Hearn gets a lot of credit for that, but Hatch gets some too. For that all of us alums should be grateful.

As an semi-old, I have some of the same gripes the rest of you do. I worry about whether growing the student body is really the right move. I also don't think Wake has done much if anything to show leadership on the problem of the cost of higher ed. There's way too much administrative bloat. Of course Wake is in good company with nearly every other private school out there in dealing with these challenges.
 
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