Leverage in negotiating $18 million buyout

While we are listing things we have heard from unreliable sources that could be made up, I've heard from two people that Matta's agent was contacted by the Wake AD in early March and he told them that Thad would be returning to coaching next season, that the ACC is hiss conference of choice, and hopefully the the Wake job would be open at that time.

Goodman said that the contract was fully guaranteed for $18M. There's no way that's made up. He would not have posted it if he had not heard it from a reliable source who should have known the actual particulars. It was either someone from the AD, Manning's agent, or Manning himself. Now maybe that source lied, but more likely the source positioned real numbers in a deceiving way that Goodman and us have misinterpreted.

Three theories:

1) The $18M was the guaranteed value of the contract when it was signed before the 2017-18 season - this would imply an average annual salary of $2.25M
2) The $18M was calculated by Goodman by knowing there was 6 years left on the deal, and he was given an annual number that was either the max salary for the life of the deal, the maximum annual payout assuming all incentives were hit, or both - do not know what salary this would imply, other than less than $3M
3) The $18M is real and is what we would have owed if we fired him last month - this would imply an average annual salary of $3M, which certainly feels outrageous
4) The $18M is real but is what we would have owed if we fired him before the season - this would imply an average salary of $2.6M

I agree with Jaybone that #3 seems implausible because it would be about the stupidest contract anyone has ever signed. I don't know which of it is between #1, #2, and #4 or if there is some possibility that I'm missing. I do know that he makes more than $1.8M.

I have it from a good, inside source that Manning’s salary structure is as follows:

2019-20: $18 million
2020-21:$0
2021-22: $0
2022-23: $0
2023-24: $0

Once we get through next season we are in the clear.

Even if it was $10 or $11 million, with a guaranteed contract through 2025 for a coach that went 2-17 and then snuck into the first four with a terrible defensive team and plenty of questionable coaching decisions during the "good" year, it was crazy.

I can so see Ron Wellman thinking he made such a great deal thinking that Kansas would come knocking and have to cut us a huge check to take Danny back to KU.

RacerDeac said:

We're not talking about a buyout. The word all along has been that the contract is fully guaranteed. That's quite different from a buyout, and the buyout if a coach leaves vs being fired can be different numbers anyway.

In short, if Manning left on his own, he wouldn't owe us his entire guaranteed contract.

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Probably a dumb question. But this "buyout vs. fully guaranteed" question - I'm not sure I follow. Let's just say he signed a fully guaranteed $18M contract. We just finished year 1 of the contract (I think?) After next season, he has four years remaining on the contract - couldn't we "buy him out" for the remaining $12M (or whatever the remaining contract value is)?

Or have you guys been using buyout in the sense of, negotiating an amount to get both parties out of the contract (that would presumably be less than the remaining guaranteed money)?

All I'm trying to confirm is, even if fully guaranteed, each year that he's here, the remaining guaranteed amount we'd owe him reduces, correct?

WFUWaldo said:

I have it from a good, inside source that Manning’s salary structure is as follows:

2019-20: $18 million
2020-21:$0
2021-22: $0
2022-23: $0
2023-24: $0

Once we get through next season we are in the clear.

Click to expand...

If this is correct and we didn't offer $4-5M, then Wellman is a moron. Currie should have told Danny, "Barring winning a National Championship, I'm going to fire you at the end of next year."

It would have been a win-win. Danny could have gracefully exited with a pot full of money and we could have hired a new coach.

For Deac's Sake said:

Probably a dumb question. But this "buyout vs. fully guaranteed" question - I'm not sure I follow. Let's just say he signed a fully guaranteed $18M contract. We just finished year 1 of the contract (I think?) After next season, he has four years remaining on the contract - couldn't we "buy him out" for the remaining $12M (or whatever the remaining contract value is)?

Or have you guys been using buyout in the sense of, negotiating an amount to get both parties out of the contract (that would presumably be less than the remaining guaranteed money)?

All I'm trying to confirm is, even if fully guaranteed, each year that he's here, the remaining guaranteed amount we'd owe him reduces, correct?

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Correct. The amount goes down each season. Normally a "buyout" is understood to be an agreed upon amount that is lower than the full contract in exchange for the fact that said person won't be working there.

i.e. the contract may be for $3 million for 6 years, so with 4 years remaining, a fully guaranteed contract would require us to pay him $12M to go away. A buyout clause in the contract would allow us to fire him with 4 years remaining for something more like $6 million. He takes a $6M cut over 4 years, but he's also not working.

A well negotiated contract from Wake would have been something more like Mike Young's at VT. Then again, you could argue that paying Danny Manning or Mike Young the amount of money Wake and VT are paying them automatically calls into question how well negotiated the contract is from the schools' perspective to begin with.
https://virginiatech.sportswar.com/article/2019/04/08/mike-young-contract-details/

WFUWaldo said:

I have it from a good, inside source that Manning’s salary structure is as follows:

2019-20: $18 million
2020-21:$0
2021-22: $0
2022-23: $0
2023-24: $0

Once we get through next season we are in the clear.

Click to expand...

RJKarl said:

If this is correct and we didn't offer $4-5M, then Wellman is a moron. Currie should have told Danny, "Barring winning a National Championship, I'm going to fire you at the end of next year."

It would have been a win-win. Danny could have gracefully exited with a pot full of money and we could have hired a new coach.

Click to expand...

:wtftard:

If that was correct <cough> then we could have offered a $50 walmart giftcard and he is making out like a bandit. He also would have a perpetually young team to coach out his deal. The howlin' and screamin' demons would take the acc by storm as the all freshman walk ons took on all comers (for free) at half time of all our games next year.

deaconson said:

If that was correct <cough> then we could have offered a $50 walmart giftcard and he is making out like a bandit. He also would have a perpetually young team to coach out his deal. The howlin' and screamin' demons would take the acc by storm as the all freshman walk ons took on all comers (for free) at half time of all our games next year.

Click to expand...

If all of above is true, I would assume Wellman did offer something and Manning didn't bite for whatever reason.

If it is as described, it makes no sense for Manning not to take a year's salary and some more to leave. He had a perfect out. He could say, "Thank you Wake Forest for the opportunity. New AD John Currie deserves to hire a coach of his choosing. I have great memories of Wake Forest. Go Deacs!"

If he did this, Self or someone else in the NBA could hire him. He could effectively make double or triple what he will make by staying. He'll look like he has a lot of class. Additionally, he won't have another bad year on his record.

You really must have shit for brains.