Leverage in negotiating $18 million buyout

Many of you are far better negotiators than I am. I do not do it for a living, just for things like homes, cars, etc...

But I do know assessing and acting on leverage is the foundation of good negotiating. SO I ask you this...What in the hell kind of leverage did Danny Manning have to negotiate an $18 million buyout? I mean coming off a first four flop you would think the number would be a year's salary.

Are you really willing to chalk it up to Wellman's stupidity?

Please enlighten me.

Biff please merge threads

If this question has been answered on another thread feel free to delete this after providing a link to it.


I just want to hear from some of Wake's finest - maybe even an agent - who can enlighten me as to how a mediocre coach negotiates a buyout equal to the full term of his contract.


I gotta doubt the veracity of the $18 million buyout story line unless somebody can explain the lunacy.

We can't.

My best theory is that Wellman and the powers that be were 100% convinced Manning was going to be a great coach and Kansas would snap him up at the first opportunity. So Wellman figured he would get enough to cover the next coach’s salary.

So Wellman manufactured the leverage for Manning?

Just throwing Wake's money away? Because surely Manning didn't perceive he had that kind of leverage. Wow. I wonder how long that negotiation took? two seconds?

Danny Manning, being a former NBA player who made multi-millions, already had a really good agent and really good attorneys in place. The leverage Danny had was that he could afford to pay his top dollar agent and attorneys, already had them in place, and let them take full advantage of Wellman & Hatch who have the competency of a kindergartener when hiring NCAA head basketball coaches.

netflixnchildres said:

Danny Manning, being a former NBA player who made multi-millions, already had a really good agent and really good attorneys in place. The leverage Danny had was that he could afford to pay his top dollar agent and attorneys, already had them in place, and let them take full advantage of Wellman & Hatch who have the competency of a kindergartener when hiring NCAA head basketball coaches.

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Who is Manning's agent?

Ralph Medlin said:

Many of you are far better negotiators than I am. I do not do it for a living, just for things like homes, cars, etc...

But I do know assessing and acting on leverage is the foundation of good negotiating. SO I ask you this...What in the hell kind of leverage did Danny Manning have to negotiate an $18 million buyout? I mean coming off a first four flop you would think the number would be a year's salary.

Are you really willing to chalk it up to Wellman's stupidity?

Please enlighten me.

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Don't forget that Wellman started his career as a gym teacher. Peter Principle in the flesh and blood.

Medlin you need to check your privliege. Your thoughts are nowhere near as original as you think and certainly don't warrant another thread about our AD and head basketball coach. This thread will remain open, but you are on notice.

BiffTannen said:

Medlin you need to check your privliege. Your thoughts are nowhere near as original as you think and certainly don't warrant another thread about our AD and head basketball coach. This thread will remain open, but you are on notice.

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I approve of Biff's current authoritative streak.

BiffTannen said:

Medlin you need to check your privliege. Your thoughts are nowhere near as original as you think and certainly don't warrant another thread about our AD and head basketball coach. This thread will remain open, but you are on notice.

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a) coincidental typo? b) or clever?

strong lean to a)

The buyout works both ways. UCLA balked at paying TCU $9m to get Jamie Dixon last week, so it kept their coach from being grabbed by a bigger fish. If TCU was willing to part with Dixon they could have taken less. So if Manning had followed up on 16-17 with two more year of improvement and Kansas came calling we would get a damn big check to hire our next coach. From Manning's perspective, if Wake wouldn't pay what he wanted, the big buyout was protection for him taking less than what he thought he was worth. There's also that story circulating that Manning put some of his own money into the new facilities and that this was protection to make sure he gets to stay and get his money back.

The $18 million is a made up number. We've Foxed-newsed this into being written in stone. The $18 million is based on IF Manning hit all of his milestones - ACC regular season championship, ACC tourney championship, NCAA Sweet 16, Final 4 and NCAA champion. IF, he did all those things and Kansas grabbed him, we'd have gotten $18 million - assuming that number is even real. Since Manning hit none of those milestones, our firing him and buying him out would have cost us significantly less. A few folks with rumored knowledge have put the number at $10 million. It basically means 5 years of his salary. Next year it will be 4 years. So, totally guessing, only $8mil instead of $10. I suppose it is possible that number gets drastically reduced due to some language in the contract.

There are probably dates etched into it as well. I am still hoping that Texas, Wake, and Billy Donovan have some sort of circle jerk agreement that puts Donovan either at Wake or Texas and Shaka at Wake, with Manning opening his much anticipated big man camp, replacing Pete Newell who is 155 years old. Probably a fool's hope.

Manning is the worst paid head coach in the ACC. His agent either negotiated a sweet buyout deal in exchange for continuing as the cheapest coach, and Wellman just fucked it up. Going back a long time, to at least Dino, Wellman some how equates job security with the ability to recruit - thinking (wrongly I believe) that somehow recruits want to make sure a coach has security before committing to them. I don't think recruits pay attention to that type of stuff, and no recruit signs with after two 20 loss seasons trusting their coach's job security. They want playing time

Atlanta Deacon said:

The buyout works both ways.

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We're not talking about a buyout. The word all along has been that the contract is fully guaranteed. That's quite different from a buyout, and the buyout if a coach leaves vs being fired can be different numbers anyway.

In short, if Manning left on his own, he wouldn't owe us his entire guaranteed contract.

jaybone said:

The $18 million is a made up number. We've Foxed-newsed this into being written in stone. The $18 million is based on IF Manning hit all of his milestones - ACC regular season championship, ACC tourney championship, NCAA Sweet 16, Final 4 and NCAA champion. IF, he did all those things and Kansas grabbed him, we'd have gotten $18 million - assuming that number is even real. Since Manning hit none of those milestones, our firing him and buying him out would have cost us significantly less. A few folks with rumored knowledge have put the number at $10 million. It basically means 5 years of his salary. Next year it will be 4 years. So, totally guessing, only $8mil instead of $10. I suppose it is possible that number gets drastically reduced due to some language in the contract.

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Says $18M is made up.

Proceeds to make up a bunch of stuff about the $18M and Manning's current salary without any evidence or sources whatsoever.

Yeah all the reporting has been that it is a fully guaranteed deal, so there’s not actually a way for Wake to buyout Manning. From Wake’s standpoint, it doesn’t really matter if it is a buyout or not, as no one is going to hire him away and pay it.

Comments from the BSD folks have suggested that while $18MM guaranteed may be high, it is $10MM+.

Atlanta Deacon said:

The buyout works both ways. UCLA balked at paying TCU $9m to get Jamie Dixon last week, so it kept their coach from being grabbed by a bigger fish. If TCU was willing to part with Dixon they could have taken less. So if Manning had followed up on 16-17 with two more year of improvement and Kansas came calling we would get a damn big check to hire our next coach. From Manning's perspective, if Wake wouldn't pay what he wanted, the big buyout was protection for him taking less than what he thought he was worth. There's also that story circulating that Manning put some of his own money into the new facilities and that this was protection to make sure he gets to stay and get his money back.

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Thing is, when the guy had been here three years and hadn't reached the field of 64 (and we had talent that year), how do you put all your eggs in that basket? I understand what you're saying about a fear of him leaving, but how did Wellman not balance that with the possibility that he'd be a bust and we'd be stuck with the worst coach in the country and a fully guaranteed contract?

RacerDeac said:

Says $18M is made up.

Proceeds to pass off a bunch of speculation as fact without any evidence or sources whatsoever.

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Not following. Can't tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing w me.

We are all guessing. I am guessing 18mil is not real because it doesn't make logical sense. It is more than the length of the contract. Much more