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2019 Masters Thread

PhDeac said:
Plus, wasn't it a Sunday at 8 pm compared to a Masters that was moved to the early morning with Tiger winning at around 2:30?
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So I see you like to read papers based in London and can't convert time. Good work.

And, regardless, surely the greatest sporting icon of our time can outdraw a game involving two foreign nations playing in a third foreign nation. Or maybe not. Because he's playing golf. Again, Tiger is a great icon. But he is playing golf.
 
DeacMan said:
And wow fans not interested in watching a really good team play against Granada. Because, you know, that's the insanely stupid comparision the post was responding too. And yeah, it is demonstrable of just how little interest golf can actually generate relative to our No. 5 sport. I mean if the greatest player to ever play the game (per any here) is trying to complete the greatest comeback in the history of the game you'd think he'd be able to outdraw a game of our nation's No. 4 or 5 team sport being played in Brazil between Argentina and Germany, right?
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so....Tiger, a guy out of the prime of his game for a decade is a top 10 on the list (with metrics prior to his win) and plays a sport of infinitesimally less interest than soccer on a global scale. but yeah, Ronaldo and Messi are more iconic athletes
 
ImTheCaptain said:
so....Tiger, a guy out of the prime of his game for a decade is a top 10 on the list (with metrics prior to his win) and plays a sport of infinitesimally less interest than soccer on a global scale. but yeah, Ronaldo and Messi are more iconic athletes
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Yep. You pretty much nailed it. Doesn't mean Tiger isn't an icon. But he doesn't meet their fame on a global basis. He plays golf. I love hockey. I wouldn't try and proclaim Gretzky on the same plain as someone who is one of the all time greats in a sport that is ridiculously more popular on a global basis. What Tiger has done on a relative scale is obviously incredible. But he is still playing golf.
 
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DeacMan said:
Yep. You pretty much nailed it. Doesn't mean Tiger isn't an icon. But he doesn't meet their fame on a global basis. He plays golf. I love hockey. I wouldn't try and proclaim Gretzky on the same plain as someone who is one of the all time greats in a sport that is ridiculously more popular on a global basis. What Tiger has done on a relative scale is obviously incredible. But he is still playing golf.
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again, Tiger, who doesn't really do social media, has been a lame-duck at his niche sport for about a decade still makes more money off endorsements than a guy at the peak of his power in the most popular sport in the world
 
I think Messi makes more money off endorsements. That said Tiger hasn’t been a consistent winner for a few years now. I imagine both have earned well over a billion dollars with salaries and endorsements combined.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
again, Tiger, who doesn't really do social media, has been a lame-duck at his niche sport for about a decade still makes more money off endorsements than a guy at the peak of his power in the most popular sport in the world
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So your argument is that Tiger is old and still captures the imagination of the sporting world when he performs. Congrats to him. We all get that golfers can rekindle old memories in ways other athletes never can. Nicklaus won the Masters at 46. He finished in the Top 10 when he was something like 58. The fact he is old still doesn't make Tiger more of an icon than two of the five best players in the history of the world's most popular sport (who, btw, are both edging out of their prime). The fact of the matter is no sport lends itself to icons more than soccer. And that's because soccer is far and away the world's most popular sport. We will wait a long time for two players of this type of talent to come along in that sport after they retire. That's why globally they are iconic.
 
WFcatamount22 said:
Think it is definitely debatable. I know for a fact the spin angle/ and spin rates coming off of a driver face are about the same when you are comparing today's multi core balls with the liquid core balls of the early to mid 90s. I could only imagine that the wound balls that jack was using gave even less spin angle and spin rate compared to the liquid cores.
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No, it's really not debatable. Literally everything about driver/ball tech over the last 20 years has trended towards a reduction of side and backspin to optimize straighter, longer ball flights.
 
WFcatamount22 said:
To be fair everything I’ve seen regarding spin differences were comparisons between 90s pro V1’s and current. So maybe your right.
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What are you talking about with "90s pro V1's?" The ProV1 came out in late 2000.
 
whatamount crushing stereotypes all over the boards
 
Tiger and it's not even close, and that's coming from me who, while I admire his enormous talent and cultural impact don't consider myself a fan, nor do I "get" all the iconic adulation at times, but it's undeniable.
And I'll give 100%,definitive proof, which I'm sure could be confirmed by numerous scientific, sociological, cultural and statistical studies and opinions based on the following:
A few years back Tiger was playing in a tournament, and close enough to the Sunday lead that his every move was going to be shown on t.v. live/non-stop, not to mention by the thousands lining every tee box, fairway, green and pathway on the course. And you could tell by the close-ups of his face (that's another thing: he's not just shown on t.v. in profile, it's close-in head shots much of the way) that something was bothering him. He then started twisting at the waist, lifting/spreading his knees apart, etc. to where it became obvious: the guy's got a wedgie! So the wife an I are watching him not focusing on his next shot, but instead in his brilliant, creative mind trying to figure out "how can I get my drawers out of my ass with half the world watching"? But of course you know that Tiger, who is the most creative, magical, clutch "in the moment" person of our times, would be able to pull it off: he hits a long iron, and immediately after as the gallery rushes past him which provides him a small window where he's not 100% in everybody's focus, he does a little hop step/ scissors kick which presumably removed said undergarment from afore-mentioned Gluteus Maximus.
Contrast that with Messi and Ronaldo: I would guess that during a match they can be observed scratching, adjusting, pulling, etc. numerous times, and not once does it end up as a youtube video, meme or tabloid cover.....so there you have it; my last comment on the subject.
 
DownEastDeac said:
Tiger and it's not even close, and that's coming from me who, while I admire his enormous talent and cultural impact don't consider myself a fan, nor do I "get" all the iconic adulation at times, but it's undeniable.
And I'll give 100%,definitive proof, which I'm sure could be confirmed by numerous scientific, sociological, cultural and statistical studies and opinions based on the following:
A few years back Tiger was playing in a tournament, and close enough to the Sunday lead that his every move was going to be shown on t.v. live/non-stop, not to mention by the thousands lining every tee box, fairway, green and pathway on the course. And you could tell by the close-ups of his face (that's another thing: he's not just shown on t.v. in profile, it's close-in head shots much of the way) that something was bothering him. He then started twisting at the waist, lifting/spreading his knees apart, etc. to where it became obvious: the guy's got a wedgie! So the wife an I are watching him not focusing on his next shot, but instead in his brilliant, creative mind trying to figure out "how can I get my drawers out of my ass with half the world watching"? But of course you know that Tiger, who is the most creative, magical, clutch "in the moment" person of our times, would be able to pull it off: he hits a long iron, and immediately after as the gallery rushes past him which provides him a small window where he's not 100% in everybody's focus, he does a little hop step/ scissors kick which presumably removed said undergarment from afore-mentioned Gluteus Maximus.
Contrast that with Messi and Ronaldo: I would guess that during a match they can be observed scratching, adjusting, pulling, etc. numerous times, and not once does it end up as a youtube video, meme or tabloid cover.....so there you have it; my last comment on the subject.
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again, you're conflating US icon with global icon. watching the Champions League matches yesterday and it was all Ronaldo and Messi, all the time. the fact that Ronaldo lost meant no chance of a Ronaldo/Messi final which would have astronomical ratings.

they are on tabloid covers daily in Europe, possibly elsewhere too. If you were to go to some random convenience store or bus stop in Honduras or Burma, are you more likely to see a Pepsi (or whatever) ad with Messi/Ronaldo or Tiger?
 
i don't get it. two super powerful, young, iconic guys all over social media still can't get the endorsement money of a 43 yo golfer who hasn't been relevant except as a novelty for a decade

but tv ratings !
 
ImTheCaptain said:
i don't get it. two super powerful, young, iconic guys all over social media still can't get the endorsement money of a 43 yo golfer who hasn't been relevant except as a novelty for a decade

but tv ratings !
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more OWGs buy expensive golf shit than kids in developing countries buying boots and kits
 
BarcaDeac said:
again, you're conflating US icon with global icon. watching the Champions League matches yesterday and it was all Ronaldo and Messi, all the time. the fact that Ronaldo lost meant no chance of a Ronaldo/Messi final which would have astronomical ratings.

they are on tabloid covers daily in Europe, possibly elsewhere too. If you were to go to some random convenience store or bus stop in Honduras or Burma, are you more likely to see a Pepsi (or whatever) ad with Messi/Ronaldo or Tiger?
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Like I said I won't comment on the subject itself again, but just a message to those of you who are not amongst the "chip on their shoulder/always on the defensive" soccer crowd:
Boys, I tried... thought I made a decent observation about Tiger in a run-of-the-mill tour event vs. Ronaldo/Messi in a typical soccer match, but that got labeled as "insanely stupid" (to which I didn't respond; this is an interesting topic to me, but not to the level where I care enough to advance the conversation beyond any personal insults). But I did think; "you know, let's go at this one more time, but maybe with a little humor/brevity: how can anybody get their feathers ruffled over a comment about Tiger's butt crack or Messi's balls?". So I was wrong, as the above posts illustrates. If as typical guys we can't find any common ground even when discussing our asses and nut sacks, all is hopeless and the end is near.
 
DeacMan said:
Yep. You pretty much nailed it. Doesn't mean Tiger isn't an icon. But he doesn't meet their fame on a global basis. He plays golf. I love hockey. I wouldn't try and proclaim Gretzky on the same plain as someone who is one of the all time greats in a sport that is ridiculously more popular on a global basis. What Tiger has done on a relative scale is obviously incredible. But he is still playing golf.
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Soccer bros are so sensitive.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
i don't get it. two super powerful, young, iconic guys all over social media still can't get the endorsement money of a 43 yo golfer who hasn't been relevant except as a novelty for a decade

but tv ratings !
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Yeah, because no one has cited this to you earlier in this thread. Endorsements indeed. There are three athletes Nike has ever given a lifetime deal to - Jordan, LeBron and Ronaldo. And, to be clear, Adidas has Messi. Ronaldo has a $1B deal with Nike. And it's considered a bargain.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtba...-a-bargain-for-sportswear-giant/#7d01427d5a91

I'll spare you having to actually read the money sentence from the article.

"Ronaldo is on a completely different planet than any other athlete when it comes to media value for his sponsors."

So Tiger is on planet earth with all the other athletes and Ronaldo has left our planet and operates in a different realm. But do go on.

FWIW, I can't stand Ronaldo. I think he's a complete ass-hat. But on pretty much every level you have lost the plot on this one - including on endorsements.

He is the #1 followed person on social media on the planet. Person, not athlete. And he dwarfs the following of the No. 2 person, a singer. The number of new followers he added last year alone was more than the total number of followers of any other athlete (LeBron James is second).

What straw do you want to grasp at next?
 
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plus, the argument, in my mind, was never whether Tiger or Ronaldo was more marketable, but whether or not Messi and Ronaldo were considered iconic

I also think endorsement money is a bad metric, because sports with a wealthier following have higher endorsement deals.

Look at this list: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtba...ghest-paid-athletes-of-all-time/#4711a5a64b64

Golf is way overrepresented relative to the number of people who follow it.
 
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