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Wake Hoops 2019-2020

Is it possible to be too pessimistic about Wake Basketball right now? We retained Manning for a 6th season for fucks sake.
 
I doubt i will watch a single game next year. Manning is such a dumbass that it is no fun to watch a game
 
Beyond the thread title, I can't wait to see what this season's official hashtag will be.

Looking at the 96/97 "Net Results" schedule poster on the wall of my office and shaking my head.

#NewBeginnings

It'll have to be something about growing or maturing, right? Almost like the Panthers' dumb "Keep Pounding"... But more basketball related. #KeepGrinding?
 
DeacsATS said:
Beyond the thread title, I can't wait to see what this season's official hashtag will be.

Looking at the 96/97 "Net Results" schedule poster on the wall of my office and shaking my head.

#NewBeginnings

It'll have to be something about growing or maturing, right? Almost like the Panthers' dumb "Keep Pounding"... But more basketball related. #KeepGrinding?
Click to expand...

#DoYouBelieveInMiracles?
 
Wake Forest basketball to state the obvious has not had enough talent on the the team since Gaudio was fired. That’s not to say that Gaudio should have been hired or fired, but it is to say that neither Jeff nor Danny were able to recruit enough talent to win games. One example that stands out was Danny’s all out effort to land Harry Giles. I think Danny put everything he had into that effort and fell short. Since that failed effort it seems like top level talent through associations with Manning as a player and maybe social connections give Wake Forest a courtesy nod, but are headed to winning programs. I quit buying my super seats and am as disappointed as any of you and don’t consider my suspension of support to be a lack of loyalty. I am ready to support the team wholeheartedly when the program does what needs to be done to successfully recruit talent that can win. Hoops 2019-2020? Come on Currie, the ball is your court now.
 
Sophomre Hoard is definitely worth another 4 wins. Win one or two more in the ACC tournament and we're a 10-seed.

What could have been.
 
"The sport nobody at this school cares about 19-20 season" gets my vote for thread title
 
Oldgoldemon said:
Wake Forest basketball to state the obvious has not had enough talent on the the team since Gaudio was fired. That’s not to say that Gaudio should have been hired or fired, but it is to say that neither Jeff nor Danny were able to recruit enough talent to win games. One example that stands out was Danny’s all out effort to land Harry Giles. I think Danny put everything he had into that effort and fell short. Since that failed effort it seems like top level talent through associations with Manning as a player and maybe social connections give Wake Forest a courtesy nod, but are headed to winning programs. I quit buying my super seats and am as disappointed as any of you and don’t consider my suspension of support to be a lack of loyalty. I am ready to support the team wholeheartedly when the program does what needs to be done to successfully recruit talent that can win. Hoops 2019-2020? Come on Currie, the ball is your court now.
Click to expand...

The biggest killer was dud of a 2016 class. 2015 (Collins, Moore, Crawford) was a good class, and if we could have followed it up in 2016 with some of our top targets (Giles, Eli Wright, Koby McEwen) we would have been in pretty good shape. Instead we completely struck out, and started bringing in players like Richard Washington. Having no contingency plan was a program-killer.
 
WFUWaldo said:
The biggest killer was dud of a 2016 class. 2015 (Collins, Moore, Crawford) was a good class, and if we could have followed it up in 2016 with some of our top targets (Giles, Eli Wright, Koby McEwen) we would have been in pretty good shape. Instead we completely struck out, and started bringing in players like Richard Washington. Having no contingency plan was a program-killer.
Click to expand...

Use another example. I expect Richard Washington to have a really good year at San Jose State. He averaged 17/8/3 in JUCO last year.

Our program is in the shitter, but I think many don't fully understand why. They think that Manning sucks as a coach and therefore we suck. That's only 1/3 of it IMO.

To run a successful ACC program you need to be a good to great coach and you need to have a specific well thought out philosophy as to how you want to play, how you want to recruit, and how you want to "run a program."

For example, you could argue that Prosser was just a good coach, not a great one as far as gameplanning and in game adjustments. However, he had a deeply thought out philosophy as to how he wanted to run a program. Truthfully, he never quite nailed his recruiting philosphy post CP3. He got in the conversation with national 5star players and sort of lost laser focus. But he always had the program run in the mold he wanted.

With Manning, he's so far proven to be:

* Not a good coach
* No particular philosophy on how to run a program other than keep it clean
* Has zero recruiting philosophy. Go after 5stars, 4stars, 3stars if they have length and see who comes. Fill spots with grad transfers.

Because all three pillars of college excellence have not been met, we lose players to the pros a year or two earlier than we should and we lose transfers a year before the player could be a productive ACC-level player. In other words, it is not that Richard Washington was a bad player - it was that he was recruited happenstance, never provided a blueprint as to how he would develop over 4 or 5 years, and then recruited over. Same deal with Mitchell.

Honestly, if you were writing a blueprint for how to fuck up a program, you could pretty much follow Manning's choices over the last 5 years.
 
jaybone said:
Use another example. I expect Richard Washington to have a really good year at San Jose State. He averaged 17/8/3 in JUCO last year.

Our program is in the shitter, but I think many don't fully understand why. They think that Manning sucks as a coach and therefore we suck. That's only 1/3 of it IMO.

To run a successful ACC program you need to be a good to great coach and you need to have a specific well thought out philosophy as to how you want to play, how you want to recruit, and how you want to "run a program."

For example, you could argue that Prosser was just a good coach, not a great one as far as gameplanning and in game adjustments. However, he had a deeply thought out philosophy as to how he wanted to run a program. Truthfully, he never quite nailed his recruiting philosphy post CP3. He got in the conversation with national 5star players and sort of lost laser focus. But he always had the program run in the mold he wanted.

With Manning, he's so far proven to be:

* Not a good coach
* No particular philosophy on how to run a program other than keep it clean
* Has zero recruiting philosophy. Go after 5stars, 4stars, 3stars if they have length and see who comes. Fill spots with grad transfers.

Because all three pillars of college excellence have not been met, we lose players to the pros a year or two earlier than we should and we lose transfers a year before the player could be a productive ACC-level player. In other words, it is not that Richard Washington was a bad player - it was that he was recruited happenstance, never provided a blueprint as to how he would develop over 4 or 5 years, and then recruited over. Same deal with Mitchell.

Honestly, if you were writing a blueprint for how to fuck up a program, you could pretty much follow Manning's choices over the last 5 years.
Click to expand...

Super long post to basically say that Manning isn't just a bad game coach, but is also bad at all the other elements of being a ACC basketball coach.

(In other words, I think when people say Manning is a bad basketball coach, they are considering all of these dimensions).
 
I should add, we do a horrible job developing players - making them better. College players get better naturally with game experience. But becoming better passers, shooters, defenders, decision makers - a lot of that is coaching and development. We suck at that too.

Our intensity, especially defensively blows as well. So, if you want to change 3 pillars to 5, we suck at all 5 from a staffing perspective - and that is based on 5 years sample size. Essentially, Manning had one great month at Tulsa 6 years ago in a mid major conference season.
 
WFU Lurker said:
Super long post to basically say that Manning isn't just a bad game coach, but is also bad at all the other elements of being a ACC basketball coach.

(In other words, I think when people say Manning is a bad basketball coach, they are considering all of these dimensions).
Click to expand...

Okay, then don't use Richard Washington as a whipping boy as to why we suck. That's like the reason Trump sucks as President is because he uses a tanning bed. It's pretty close to irrelevant as to why Manning sucks as a coach.
 
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