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Wake Hoops 2019-2020

WFUWaldo said:
The biggest killer was dud of a 2016 class. 2015 (Collins, Moore, Crawford) was a good class, and if we could have followed it up in 2016 with some of our top targets (Giles, Eli Wright, Koby McEwen) we would have been in pretty good shape. Instead we completely struck out, and started bringing in players like Richard Washington. Having no contingency plan was a program-killer.
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I think your time line is off. We accepted commitments from B-Chill, R Wash and big Sam months or weeks before Giles and McEwen completed their recruitment. Our 2016 recruits weren't the mad dash back-up plan, they were the plan and Giles was the icing.
 
jaybone said:
Use another example. I expect Richard Washington to have a really good year at San Jose State. He averaged 17/8/3 in JUCO last year.
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Can you define "really good year"? I will be shocked if he averages more than 5 points/game.
 
birdman said:
I think your time line is off. We accepted commitments from B-Chill, R Wash and big Sam months or weeks before Giles and McEwen completed their recruitment. Our 2016 recruits weren't the mad dash back-up plan, they were the plan and Giles was the icing.
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Childress was signed to help entice Giles (and, of course, because of Randolph).

My point was more that signing players like big Sam aren't terrible in a vacuum, as long as you can also get quality players (like McEwen). But when you reach for the Giles-esque recruits and strike out, you better hit home runs with your lower-tiered prospects.

Manning has gotten some players to outplay their ranking - see Childress and Wright - but overwhelmingly the poorly ranked recruits have just been plain old bad. Go figure.
 
WFUWaldo said:
Childress was signed to help entice Giles (and, of course, because of Randolph).

My point was more that signing players like big Sam aren't terrible in a vacuum, as long as you can also get quality players (like McEwen). But when you reach for the Giles-esque recruits and strike out, you better hit home runs with your lower-tiered prospects.

Manning has gotten some players to outplay their ranking - see Childress and Wright - but overwhelmingly the poorly ranked recruits have just been plain old bad. Go figure.
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My point is that Manning’s entire recruiting strategy appears to be haphazard and he’s gotten lucky a few times and only had the right pieces in a single year. It’s not just recruiting, it’s his approach to coaching as a whole.
 
Prosser, like Clawson, had the charisma factor. Both figured out how to market Wake Forest as a unique place. With Manning we are just some University that has a basketball team. Nothing special. On the charisma scale, Manning is just the worst I have ever seen.
 
macktheknife said:
Prosser, like Clawson, had the charisma factor. Both figured out how to market Wake Forest as a unique place. With Manning we are just some University that has a basketball team. Nothing special. On the charisma scale, Manning is just the worst I have ever seen.
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A bump on a log.
 
WFUWaldo said:
Childress was signed to help entice Giles (and, of course, because of Randolph).

My point was more that signing players like big Sam aren't terrible in a vacuum, as long as you can also get quality players (like McEwen). But when you reach for the Giles-esque recruits and strike out, you better hit home runs with your lower-tiered prospects.

Manning has gotten some players to outplay their ranking - see Childress and Wright - but overwhelmingly the poorly ranked recruits have just been plain old bad. Go figure.
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I disagree to some extent. The one thing Manning and staff DO have is a pretty good eye for talent. We have had a number of 3star recruits outplay their rankings. Starting with of course, Collins through to Wright. The problem is that other than possibly footwork, our development sucks. And a lot of that 3star talent needed development. Richard Washington WAS a borderline top 5 conference player despite being a low 3star recruit. He looked 14 as a frosh. He needed a blueprint - redshirt then 5 minutes a game frosh year thru to a 25 minute a game key player by senior year. But since none of that happened, he had to leave. So, we waste a scholly on a player that cannot help for a few years only to lose him on the cusp of him being able to help. All because of poor communication and terrible system creation. Remove Manning 5 years ago and put in Jay Wright with the exact same players and Richard Washington is a key swing player next year on an NCAA bubble team.
 
jaybone said:
I disagree to some extent. The one thing Manning and staff DO have is a pretty good eye for talent. We have had a number of 3star recruits outplay their rankings. Starting with of course, Collins through to Wright. The problem is that other than possibly footwork, our development sucks. And a lot of that 3star talent needed development. Richard Washington WAS a borderline top 5 conference player despite being a low 3star recruit. He looked 14 as a frosh. He needed a blueprint - redshirt then 5 minutes a game frosh year thru to a 25 minute a game key player by senior year. But since none of that happened, he had to leave. So, we waste a scholly on a player that cannot help for a few years only to lose him on the cusp of him being able to help. All because of poor communication and terrible system creation. Remove Manning 5 years ago and put in Jay Wright with the exact same players and Richard Washington is a key swing player next year on an NCAA bubble team.
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Lot of truth to this.
 
jaybone said:
I disagree to some extent. The one thing Manning and staff DO have is a pretty good eye for talent. We have had a number of 3star recruits outplay their rankings. Starting with of course, Collins through to Wright. The problem is that other than possibly footwork, our development sucks. And a lot of that 3star talent needed development. Richard Washington WAS a borderline top 5 conference player despite being a low 3star recruit. He looked 14 as a frosh. He needed a blueprint - redshirt then 5 minutes a game frosh year thru to a 25 minute a game key player by senior year. But since none of that happened, he had to leave. So, we waste a scholly on a player that cannot help for a few years only to lose him on the cusp of him being able to help. All because of poor communication and terrible system creation. Remove Manning 5 years ago and put in Jay Wright with the exact same players and Richard Washington is a key swing player next year on an NCAA bubble team.
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Not sure your infatuation with Richard Washington. I will bet dollars to donuts that Richard doesn't see 20 mpg at San Jose State this year, a team that will almost certainly finish below 0.500. He is not, and will not, be a borderline top-5 conference player, nor will he be, nor would he have ever been, a key swing player on an NCAA bubble team.
 
WFUWaldo said:
Not sure your infatuation with Richard Washington. I will bet dollars to donuts that Richard doesn't see 20 mpg at San Jose State this year, a team that will almost certainly finish below 0.500. He is not, and will not, be a borderline top-5 conference player, nor will he be, nor would he have ever been, a key swing player on an NCAA bubble team.
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Fair enough. Part of that is the poor guy is on his 3rd program in 3 years. Whatever blueprint that would have worked for him - that didn't and won't happen now. He had nowhere to go except JUCO or Div 2 or 3 school. He went to JUCO and earned a scholly at a Div 1 school with his play. 16/8/3 after not playing for two years is no joke. He may or may not see the north side of 20 minutes a game and he may or may not see 8-10 pts per game, but he is going to play and be an integral rotation player at a Div 1 school.

When you give a kid a scholly, you are committing yourself to 4 or 5 years to that kid to develop his game and develop him as a man, as a member of a community.

What I am saying is that don't fire Manning for being a shit coach. Don't fire Manning for piss poor recruiting. Fire Manning because he's failing the kids he has committed himself to at unacceptable failure rates. It is as simple as that. It is less about Richard Washington than it is about what he represents. It is not like Manning gave him a scholly thinking the kid was going to play 20 minutes a game from the get-go. Manning throws the kids under the bus and says it is about kids not grinding it out like he did. It's a cop out, and it infuriates me. He's getting paid too much money to fail kids. He is going to win and lose games, but failing kids. Fuck you, man.
 
jaybone said:
Fair enough. Part of that is the poor guy is on his 3rd program in 3 years. Whatever blueprint that would have worked for him - that didn't and won't happen now. He had nowhere to go except JUCO or Div 2 or 3 school. He went to JUCO and earned a scholly at a Div 1 school with his play. 16/8/3 after not playing for two years is no joke. He may or may not see the north side of 20 minutes a game and he may or may not see 8-10 pts per game, but he is going to play and be an integral rotation player at a Div 1 school.

When you give a kid a scholly, you are committing yourself to 4 or 5 years to that kid to develop his game and develop him as a man, as a member of a community.

What I am saying is that don't fire Manning for being a shit coach. Don't fire Manning for piss poor recruiting. Fire Manning because he's failing the kids he has committed himself to at unacceptable failure rates. It is as simple as that. It is less about Richard Washington than it is about what he represents. It is not like Manning gave him a scholly thinking the kid was going to play 20 minutes a game from the get-go. Manning throws the kids under the bus and says it is about kids not grinding it out like he did. It's a cop out, and it infuriates me. He's getting paid too much money to fail kids. He is going to win and lose games, but failing kids. Fuck you, man.
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Agree. To top it off he wasted what could have been a red shirt year without giving him even garbage minutes. After one year of watching every minute of Wake basketball, I had no idea whether Washington had the potential to play at this level. If you are going to give a guy a scholarship, you need to either red shirt him or at least give him some garbage time. When you are up or down by 20 with 3 minutes to play, give the player a chance to play. To do otherwise is just trashing 1/4 of the players eligibility.
 
jaybone said:
Fair enough. Part of that is the poor guy is on his 3rd program in 3 years. Whatever blueprint that would have worked for him - that didn't and won't happen now. He had nowhere to go except JUCO or Div 2 or 3 school. He went to JUCO and earned a scholly at a Div 1 school with his play. 16/8/3 after not playing for two years is no joke. He may or may not see the north side of 20 minutes a game and he may or may not see 8-10 pts per game, but he is going to play and be an integral rotation player at a Div 1 school.

When you give a kid a scholly, you are committing yourself to 4 or 5 years to that kid to develop his game and develop him as a man, as a member of a community.

What I am saying is that don't fire Manning for being a shit coach. Don't fire Manning for piss poor recruiting. Fire Manning because he's failing the kids he has committed himself to at unacceptable failure rates. It is as simple as that. It is less about Richard Washington than it is about what he represents. It is not like Manning gave him a scholly thinking the kid was going to play 20 minutes a game from the get-go. Manning throws the kids under the bus and says it is about kids not grinding it out like he did. It's a cop out, and it infuriates me. He's getting paid too much money to fail kids. He is going to win and lose games, but failing kids. Fuck you, man.
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100% Truth. Absolutely.

"Manning cares nothing about Wake or the kids he brings in."
This is the perception going in to Year Sux. However...
If the statement is true, fire his ass. If not true, why hasn't Manning proven it wrong by now?
 
macktheknife said:
Prosser, like Clawson, had the charisma factor. Both figured out how to market Wake Forest as a unique place. With Manning we are just some University that has a basketball team. Nothing special. On the charisma scale, Manning is just the worst I have ever seen.
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Prosser was amazing at engaging the students. His prophetic see you on the quad at midnight emails were legendary. I miss that dude.
 
macktheknife said:
Prosser, like Clawson, had the charisma factor. Both figured out how to market Wake Forest as a unique place. With Manning we are just some University that has a basketball team. Nothing special. On the charisma scale, Manning is just the worst I have ever seen.
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Truth. Straight up truth.

Had to change a password at my work this week. I used FireManning19.
 
Manning tweeted out that awesome video yesterday with the caption "The grind continues" to really get us pumped up for another 20 loss season.
 
Nobody associated with our basketball program should be using the word “continues.”
 
jaybone said:
Okay, then don't use Richard Washington as a whipping boy as to why we suck. That's like the reason Trump sucks as President is because he uses a tanning bed. It's pretty close to irrelevant as to why Manning sucks as a coach.
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maybe sit out talking about basketball for a couple years. at least on these here boards.


you have to be tired of being wrong like 90% of the time
 
deacvision7 said:
maybe sit out talking about basketball for a couple years. at least on these here boards.


you have to be tired of being wrong like 90% of the time
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Coming from you = rich.

Board policemen posts are so 2012. Get over your fucking self - we have.
 
I am sure the ALL CAPS and B 11 have some significance but I don't follow.

Aren't you a one-trick pony anyway? I figure that 79,000 of your 81,000 posts are soccer-related.

And again, board warfare is REALLY dated. Ginning up hatred between Wake grads is - IMO - very 2012. I'm not biting.

But you should probably lay off. It is an odd thread to go after me as well. You should have waited until I was really wrong about something.
 
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