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Mueller to make public statement at 11am

Here's the thing though, Dems are actually quite bad too. Maybe worse.

They were elected in droves in the midterms on a message of holding Trump accountable, and they simply and straightforwardly refuse. Time and time again it's:

Pubs: Hey Mexicans, we're gonna put you're kids in concentration camps.
Dems: It's spelled "your," idiots.

They've been handed mandate after mandate from their electorate, in the form of impeachment hearings, health care expansion, energy overhaul, etc. And they're still getting completely dominated by Republicans swinging their dicks around. Dems are too busy infighting, censuring their own most popular new members of Congress, running half the party for president, and generally just acting like Jeff Flake. Trump and McConnell have laid a perfect blueprint for just utterly not caring about political norms and steamrolling your way to legislating and court packing. They can openly operate in bad faith and Dems aren't doing jack shit about it. Utterly gutless party.

Can't wait for President Biden to just be Trump 2.0 where at least we can have our NORMS RESTORED. Now with 538 we've got every coastal elite convinced they're an expert on elections and electability, and policy be god damned. Electoral college buttfucks us again. If Obama's term was evident of anything it's that today's Dem establishment are neolib corporate centrists through and through. Not gonna prosecute the war criminals or white collar robber barons of the Bush admin. But boy oh boy will we scold them.
 
This is the kind of nonsense that the Pubs exploit to stay in power. It's going to be a long slog obtaining power and moving the needle to the left. I am not really sure how having one house of legislature with no president is supposed to provide a mandate to pass any legislation.

You know why Pubs can pack the courts? Because they control the senate.

Regarding holding Trump accountable, the house can investigate and possibly impeach, but ultimately it isn't going anywhere.

Minimal power and unrealistic expectations as to what can be accomplished with that minimal power.

TownieDeac said:
Here's the thing though, Dems are actually quite bad too. Maybe worse.

They were elected in droves in the midterms on a message of holding Trump accountable, and they simply and straightforwardly refuse. Time and time again it's:

Pubs: Hey Mexicans, we're gonna put you're kids in concentration camps.
Dems: It's spelled "your," idiots.

They've been handed mandate after mandate from their electorate, in the form of impeachment hearings, health care expansion, energy overhaul, etc. And they're still getting completely dominated by Republicans swinging their dicks around. Dems are too busy infighting, censuring their own most popular new members of Congress, running half the party for president, and generally just acting like Jeff Flake. Trump and McConnell have laid a perfect blueprint for just utterly not caring about political norms and steamrolling your way to legislating and court packing. They can openly operate in bad faith and Dems aren't doing jack shit about it. Utterly gutless party.

Can't wait for President Biden to just be Trump 2.0 where at least we can have our NORMS RESTORED. Now with 538 we've got every coastal elite convinced they're an expert on elections and electability, and policy be god damned. Electoral college buttfucks us again. If Obama's term was evident of anything it's that today's Dem establishment are neolib corporate centrists through and through. Not gonna prosecute the war criminals or white collar robber barons of the Bush admin. But boy oh boy will we scold them.
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ChrisL68 said:
This is the kind of nonsense that the Pubs exploit to stay in power. It's going to be a long slog obtaining power and moving the needle to the left. I am not really sure how having one house of legislature with no president is supposed to provide a mandate to pass any legislation.

You know why Pubs can pack the courts? Because they control the senate.

Regarding holding Trump accountable, the house can investigate and possibly impeach, but ultimately it isn't going anywhere.

Minimal power and unrealistic expectations as to what can be accomplished with that minimal power.
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No, it's the centrist rally "Better things aren't possible" crowd that helps Pubs stay in power.

Green New Deal support: https://www.dataforprogress.org/gnd-support

2jlANNn.png


Data to play with: https://www.dataforprogress.org/the-new-progressive-agenda-project

More: https://www.dataforprogress.org/the-new-progressive-agenda-project-part-2

(Hint, old white dudes still the problem, ahem.)

There is broad, bipartisan, popular support for a progressive agenda, but two corporate parties are far more beholden to private interests than public good. What would be far easier for your argument, ChrisL, would just be to say you disagree with the actual policy positions. Anyway, back to not posting on the Tunnels for me, just wanted to rant a little while Trump keeps shitting all over Dems.
 
Well that settles it cherry-picked polling questions from an advocacy group. If there were actually the broad bipartisan support for these positions that you claimed they would be passed. For instance everybody likes the idea of free college until you dig into what it entails and what it would cost Etc. Same with health care.

If these ideas were really as popular as you would like to believe then progressive candidates will be dominating the Democratic primaries.
 
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ChrisL68 said:
Well that settles it cherry-picked polling questions from a advocacy group. Is it was actually the broad bipartisan support these positions that you claimed they would be passed. For instance everybody likes the idea of free college until you dig into what it entails and what it would cost Etc. Same with health care.
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That's not a reason to not do things. That's a reason to elect people who want to do them and put pressure on them to figure out how.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Well that settles it cherry-picked polling questions from an advocacy group. If there were actually the broad bipartisan support for these positions that you claimed they would be passed. For instance everybody likes the idea of free college until you dig into what it entails and what it would cost Etc. Same with health care.

If these ideas were really as popular as you would like to believe then progressive candidates will be dominating the Democratic primaries.
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Our forever wars have rounded $2.5 Trillion and are headed towards 3, and you don't really hear a lot of "how do we pay for it?" Trump's asking for another $750BN increase in FY 2020 for military spending! Dems aren't really batting an eye at that 5% increase there though.

It's an utter lack of political will that keeps us from erasing student debt and moving towards public higher education or broadening health care and child care access, not a problem of implementation or possibility, and there is broad support for these policies, polled with well-credentialed methodology. You can read all about them.

Again, it'd be far simpler if you just admitted you don't agree with the policies than saying they wouldn't work or can't happen.
 
PhDeac said:
That's not a reason to not do things. That's a reason to elect people who want to do them and put pressure on them to figure out how.
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The problem is that the popularity of the alot of these positions start decreasing when the reality of how you're going to accomplish them becomes more evident.
 
ChrisL68 said:
The problem is that the popularity of the alot of these positions start decreasing when the reality of how you're going to accomplish them becomes more evident.
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That's not a reason to not do things. That's a reason to elect people who want to do them and put pressure on them to figure out how.
 
ChrisL68 said:
The problem is that the popularity of the alot of these positions start decreasing when the reality of how you're going to accomplish them becomes more evident.
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Patently and observably false.

Trump has shown that with his child concentration camps, plants shutting down, farmers and construction workers hit hard by tariffs, cities getting wrecked by climate change, etc. People don't really care about the methods if they like their leaders or their policies. Unfortunately, Dems have become the ChrisL/Pelosi party of "no we can't," trying to outthink their opponents, who aren't really thinking at all, they're just acting.
 
TownieDeac said:
Our forever wars have rounded $2.5 Trillion and are headed towards 3, and you don't really hear a lot of "how do we pay for it?" Trump's asking for another $750BN increase in FY 2020 for military spending! Dems aren't really batting an eye at that 5% increase there though.

It's an utter lack of political will that keeps us from erasing student debt and moving towards public higher education or broadening health care and child care access, not a problem of implementation or possibility, and there is broad support for these policies, polled with well-credentialed methodology. You can read all about them.

Again, it'd be far simpler if you just admitted you don't agree with the policies than saying they wouldn't work or can't happen.
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Again you need to get out of this ideological cocoon where you feel like your ideas are popular and there's some nefarious force that are keeping them from being passed so that you can maintain some sort of moral superiority or something. I actually support more Progressive policies and we currently have in several places. Of course this has nothing to do with strategically looking at what is feasible in the near-term. You can stomp your feet or whatever but the truth of the matter is that National polls tend to show that the base of the democratic party wants to go more establishment than sharp left
 
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somehow other countries have figured it out, like the country where my company is based. my coworkers don't have to worry about healthcare or education and somehow they can still take off 3 weeks straight in the summer and afford to go on cool trips around Europe or to Asia and still have plenty more vacation time for the year, and if one of them gets pregnant they can take off all the time they need after having the child (the father can too). and our company still makes billions of euros. but, it is nice to have all this freedom here I suppose.
 
TownieDeac said:
Patently and observably false.

Trump has shown that with his child concentration camps, plants shutting down, farmers and construction workers hit hard by tariffs, cities getting wrecked by climate change, etc. People don't really care about the methods if they like their leaders or their policies. Unfortunately, Dems have become the ChrisL/Pelosi party of "no we can't," trying to outthink their opponents, who aren't really thinking at all, they're just acting.
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Have you seen Trump's approval ratings? With the current state of the economy growing in the stock market any Republican president in office right now should have approval ratings in the mid to Upper 50s or even 60%
 
Well said, Townie. People even talk about Dems learning from the "mistake" of the Republican impeachment of Clinton. What mistake? They weakened Clinton enough that the Gore campaign (wrongly) thought he was a liability and the Republicans won a close election.

The whole GOP has dirty hands here. The last thing we need is for Pelosi to pull a Denny Green.
[h=1]"They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"[/h]
 
For instance I don't oppose impeaching trump. He certainly deserves to be impeached. Nobody really knows the political calculus that will be involved with that decision. But that act alone doesn't hold him accountable for what he's done.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Again you need to get out of this ideological cocoon where you feel like your ideas are popular and there's some nefarious force that are keeping them from being passed so that you can maintain some sort of moral superiority or something. I actually support more Progressive policies and we currently have in several places. Of course this has nothing to do with strategically looking at what is feasible in the near-term. You can stop your feet or whatever but the truth of the matter is that National polls tend to show that the base of the democratic party wants to go more establishment than sharp left
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It's not about moral superiority. It's not a particularly conspiratorial position to take that money in politics overrides political will. You don't need to listen to People's Policy Project or Data for All or left leaning think tanks, you can go just about anywhere, and yes when you present people with loaded "Ok what if medicare for all, but you have to wait longer?" or "What if single payer but we have to raise your taxes?" then yes, the popularity drops. In fact, bleeding edge progressive policies do tend to have some externalities upon implementation that hurt. But why should it be that BOTH parties are interested in arguing against their broad, general appeal if there are actual different ideologies at play? I propose, and it's not really hard to follow the money or the data, that it's because Democrats are still deep in the pockets of insurers, bio, pharma, and other special interests keen on not changing. It's not the electorate's job to decide what's feasible, that's the job of the elected official.

Keep patronizing the generation that will be replacing you and cleaning up your mess, but it'll be the largest voting bloc in the next election. And the younger voters are not going more establishment.
 
ChrisL68 said:
For instance I don't oppose impeaching trump. He certainly deserves to be impeached. Nobody really knows the political calculus that will be involved with that decision. But that act alone doesn't hold him accountable for what he's done.
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You know what holds him even less accountable? Not impeaching him.
 
Colonel Angus said:
Dems = GOOD

Pubs =COWARDLY CRIMINAL ENABLERS
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FIFY...

My bad, giving a Russian spy data to impact a US election is OK with Angus and other Republicans.

My bad, a POTUS having committed over a dozen felonies is OK for Angus and other Republicans.
 
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