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CA about to blow up NCAA?

awaken said:
No, he's not a bad example. He's an example of a productive player who had no professional career. Previous posts made it sound like every college player is en route to a lucrative professional career. This is simply not the case. Craig was very important contributor to a team that brought in tens of millions of dollars to the university. I'm glad he enjoyed his time at MSD, and remembers it fondly. I'm glad he parlayed his Soc degree into coaching. I just think he should have some extra zeroes in his checking account.
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He’s a terrible example for your argument because the system worked for him and he said he wouldn’t trade it for anything.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
They can. They just can't if they want to maintain their scholarship/eligibility, because the NCAA/school wants to make the money. The same way scientists/engineers usually can't make money off of their intellectual property while compensated by their employer and using the employer's lab, equipment, etc., the IP belongs to the employer because it is developed under their umbrella. If the player wants to make money off his likeness, he is free to not play college sports and make as much money as he wants off of his likeness. Nobody is making them choose one way or the other, it is their choice. But Zion Youtube mixtapes excluded, 99.9999% of these athletes have a marketable likeness solely because of the platform that the NCAA gives them.
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“. . . usually can’t make money off their intellectual property . . .” is different from “never” as is the case for players in the NCAA system. Besides, highly educated engineers are dissimilar to minors drawn into college sports. To the extent the IP example reflects full market control by the employers, that suggests a problematic cartel.
 
part of the issue is that we care about how the school where we chose to go to get an education performs in sports that have nothing to do with our education. In the original days of college athletics, a team from one school would play a team from another school for fun and for bragging rights. As the games got bigger, more fans became invested in those bragging rights, even though they had nothing to do with the results. Now we try to convince good athletes to come to our school, not because we want to have a degree from the same place as Chris Paul or Trevor Lawrence or Maurice Clarett (ha, like he'd get a degree), but because we want our school to win more games and give us a thrill when these athletes win bragging rights for our school. We don't really care about them being students.

edited to correct my disparagement of an OSU athlete to the right guy.
 
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DeacDiggler said:
part of the issue is that we care about how the school where we chose to go to get an education performs in sports that have nothing to do with our education. In the original days of college athletics, a team from one school would play a team from another school for fun and for bragging rights. As the games got bigger, more fans became invested in those bragging rights, even though they had nothing to do with the results. Now we try to convince good athletes to come to our school, not because we want to have a degree from the same place as Chris Paul or Trevor Lawrence or Zeke Elliot (ha, like he'd get a degree), but because we want our school to win more games and give us a thrill when these athletes win bragging rights for our school. We don't really care about them being students.
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2015/04/19/ohio-states-ezekiel-elliott-wins-aau-sullivan-award/26042205/

"Ohio State running back Ezekiel Elliott won the AAU Sullivan Award on Sunday as the most outstanding U.S. amateur athlete who also demonstrates premier leadership, character and sportsmanship...

Also selected the Academic All-Big Ten Player, Elliott is a two-time OSU Scholar Athlete. He holds a 3.0 GPA and is a recently declared marketing major. He will be a junior this fall."
 
my point that i failed to make is that we can't solve this problem without deciding whether we care about legit students playing sports. If we agree that we don't really care whether students are legit (Maurice Clarett at OSU), then fine, just pay the ringers to win games. If we DO care, then the schools need to enforce admission standards. The NCAA is playing down the middle on this because the fans and schools have tacitly agreed to PRETEND that we care about academics even though we don't. The NCAA rules are designed to make this work.
 
tigerswood said:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2015/04/19/ohio-states-ezekiel-elliott-wins-aau-sullivan-award/26042205/

"Ohio State running back Ezekiel Elliott won the AAU Sullivan Award on Sunday as the most outstanding U.S. amateur athlete who also demonstrates premier leadership, character and sportsmanship...

Also selected the Academic All-Big Ten Player, Elliott is a two-time OSU Scholar Athlete. He holds a 3.0 GPA and is a recently declared marketing major. He will be a junior this fall."
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My bad - I was thinking of Maurice Clarett. Corrected above and below now. Thanks for the catch.
 
DeacAssured said:
“. . . usually can’t make money off their intellectual property . . .” is different from “never” as is the case for players in the NCAA system. Besides, highly educated engineers are dissimilar to minors drawn into college sports. To the extent the IP example reflects full market control by the employers, that suggests a problematic cartel.
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It isn't "never", it is for the 1-4 years that they are on scholarship. And 1 year is being generous in the case of the top basketball players, it is more like 4 months. And again, when they are on scholarship they are over 18 and their continued participation is voluntary. They can leave at any time to promote their likeness. That is a much looser deal than the engineer who probably is subject to a pretty strict noncompete. Trevor Lawrence could leave Clemson today and capitalize on his likeness as much as he pleases, nobody could stop him.
 
Rafi said:
He’s a terrible example for your argument because the system worked for him and he said he wouldn’t trade it for anything.
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You are going to go down on the wrong side of history on this one big guy. It is admirable how much you want to protect the revenue stream for you and your AD cronies though.

Your the system works for the players argument is an embarrassment.
 
tigerswood said:
I don't necessarily disagree, but it opens up a huge can of worms. Who polices what is considered reasonable payment for an athletes likeness? What's to stop Alabama boosters from paying all starters $50K for using their likenesses in cardboard cutouts at car dealerships? What's to stop a UNC booster from paying key contributors $100K for a signed jersey? Recruiting would become a massive bidding war, light years beyond what bagmen do today.
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Anyone want to take a stab at this? I'd love for players to be able to capitalize on their own name/likeness, but I just don't know how there's a way to control it without turning major college athletics into a bidding war for players.
 
awaken said:
No, he's not a bad example. He's an example of a productive player who had no professional career. Previous posts made it sound like every college player is en route to a lucrative professional career. This is simply not the case. Craig was very important contributor to a team that brought in tens of millions of dollars to the university. I'm glad he enjoyed his time at MSD, and remembers it fondly. I'm glad he parlayed his Soc degree into coaching. I just think he should have some extra zeroes in his checking account.
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I simply don't get this line of thinking. He was given a scarce and expensive asset (a WFU education) in exchange for his efforts in playing a game and representing the school. Seems like a fair exchange to me.
 
scooter84 said:
I simply don't get this line of thinking. He was given a scarce and expensive asset (a WFU education) in exchange for his efforts in playing a game and representing the school. Seems like a fair exchange to me.
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How is it fair that his coach made millions and his school made millions and he made pennies in comparison?

Would you have paid to see a game that featured GDO, Wellman, Hatch and a couple of profs playing against similar groups from other universities?

We are in a vastly different era. It's not the same as it was forty years ago.
 
tigerswood said:
Anyone want to take a stab at this? I'd love for players to be able to capitalize on their own name/likeness, but I just don't know how there's a way to control it without turning major college athletics into a bidding war for players.
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if athletes are going to receive fair compensation for their own names/likenesses, then by definition it must be a bidding war among anyone interested in paying
 
RJKarl said:
How is it fair that his coach made millions and his school made millions and he made pennies in comparison?

Would you have paid to see a game that featured GDO, Wellman, Hatch and a couple of profs playing against similar groups from other universities?

We are in a vastly different era. It's not the same as it was forty years ago.
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People were interested in WF basketball 40 years ago; they aren't now. For those arguing that college basketball players deserve to be paid, WF is not the best example.
 
RJKarl said:
How is it fair that his coach made millions and his school made millions and he made pennies in comparison?

Would you have paid to see a game that featured GDO, Wellman, Hatch and a couple of profs playing against similar groups from other universities?

We are in a vastly different era. It's not the same as it was forty years ago.
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Who the fuck ever said everything has to be fair?
What about the team managers - do we need to pay them too?
Major corporations make billions of dollars on the backs of the labor and ingenuity of thousands of employees. Most of those employees don't share in any of that - instead they get paid the market value of their services. The CEO and other muckity-mucks make millions - is that fair? Apparently, the market has determined that it is.

There are other reforms that I think need to be made in the system, for sure. I just don't think we need to directly pay the athletes any more money. Maybe spend some more money ON them - make sure they are getting the educational opportunity they were promised. Put aside some money to pay for their schooling if they leave and want to come back - or maybe even for grad school later?
For the ones that have a professional career in their future, make sure they get real world training to help them navigate all the pitfalls in that world.
Loosen up the transfer rules to make it less one-sided in favor of the schools.
Figure out a way to punish schools for rules violations that doesn't punish current athletes that had nothing to do with the violations.
Let them profit from the use of their likeness, if they can. Though some sort of oversight would be nice there to avoid rampant abuses.
I am sure there are other reforms that I would be in favor of as well.
 
tigerswood said:
Anyone want to take a stab at this? I'd love for players to be able to capitalize on their own name/likeness, but I just don't know how there's a way to control it without turning major college athletics into a bidding war for players.
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I think ultimately that having one organization that oversees collegiate amateur sports -- both those that bring in billions and those that lose money -- while being tied to higher education is going to be chock-full of logical inconsistencies and, where money is stake, exploitation.

You gotta pick where and who you want to be the beneficiaries of a dysfunctional system if you're gonna start with the premise that all college sports are going to be governed largely the same.
 
Pilchard said:
People were interested in WF basketball 40 years ago; they aren't now. For those arguing that college basketball players deserve to be paid, WF is not the best example.
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Dumb, self-indulgent post.
 
Deacon923 said:
i am not sure why you quoted my post. I agree with you that the obstacles to having colleges directly pay the student athletes market rates are very high and probably insurmountable. The best that could be done at most colleges is some across-the-board increased stipend which would never be enough to eliminate the black market problem in college sports. Thus, I think the only realistic solution, which also happens to be "fair" at least in my mind, is to remove the obstacles to players being able to have jobs or receive other consideration from outside parties. I think you are correct that Bowling Green's backup O line is not going to get any image money or anything else, but that's a feature, not a bug.

Also under this system I think you could have significant institutional variability. You might have some coaches and athletic departments who would decide they will not allow outside jobs or compensation, and anyone who does these things is violating team rules and can't play. So be it. At least it is all open and above board and everyone knows going into it what the deal is, as opposed to the current "system" of the most valuable players and their families extracting cash in whatever back door way they can.
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I get the appeal, but you'd still be maintaining the fiction that the ADs are not controlling how the "independent" outside parties spend their money. There's no way schools wouldn't coordinate with them on recruiting, and so you'd have the same problem of fake enforcement. Also fake enforcement by any coaches who pretend to "take the high road" and not allow outside jobs or compensation.
 
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