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IF we increase our debt limit,

ChrisL68 said:
That's assuming our economic problems couldn't be worse, which I think is a very faulty assumption. I seem to recall people predicting that the stock market wouldn't hit 10K again for a decade just two years ago.

Construction was a huge part of our employment base, and until housing starts start to come back, unemployment is going to be higher. They will eventually, and have started to in certain pockets.
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Believe me, I hope so. I just don't see any signs at all.
 
"A good first step would be an effort (a sincere one this time, not a campaign promise) at domesticating energy production."
 
jhmd2000 said:
Indeed, we are too big to fail. If we don't take these measures, unemployment will skyrocket to 8%. We must take these emergency measures now to avoid certain economic death.

Sincerely,

2009

ETA: That wasn't intended to be sarcastic; only to point out that we've tried borrowing our way out of trouble, only to get deeper in it. I'm open to ideas, but would like to be assured that there are some before we sink even further into our familiar quicksand of the easy "answer."
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We may be too big to save as well.
 
jhmd2000 said:
Indeed, we are too big to fail. If we don't take these measures, unemployment will skyrocket to 8%. We must take these emergency measures now to avoid certain economic death.

Sincerely,

2009

ETA: That wasn't intended to be sarcastic; only to point out that we've tried borrowing our way out of trouble, only to get deeper in it. I'm open to ideas, but would like to be assured that there are some before we sink even further into our familiar quicksand of the easy "answer."
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Do you realize what would have happened in 2009 if we hadn't bailed out AIG et al?
 
TR1982 said:
Do you realize what would have happened in 2009 if we hadn't bailed out AIG et al?
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Would have been worse than dragging the pain out over decades, as we look to be doing now?
 
KanhojiAngre said:
Would have been worse than dragging the pain out over decades, as we look to be doing now?
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Yes. It'd be another great depression. AIG was the world's largest insurer, and it insured thousands upon thousands of loans. If AIG had gone under, thousands of banks who didn't receive insurance payments on toxic loans that had defaulted would have followed, and then all liquidity worldwide would have dried up in a matter of days. This recession would have been small potatoes in comparison.
 
Any reason why you believe that? Or is it that you'd just rather not because it goes against conventional wisdom among the GOP masses?
 
TR1982 said:
Do you realize what would have happened in 2009 if we hadn't bailed out AIG et al?
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You'd be summering in the Hamptons instead of the South of France? Muffy would have a few fewer diamonds?
 
You work for AIG, right?
 
Yeah. The guys you are thinking of work in financial products or are executives. I manage retirement funds for teachers. As I'm sure you know, they do not make enough money to pay me a service fee that would put my commission in the multimillion dollar range (or even close). The only summering I do is a week or so at Topsail.

And if AIG had gone under, I wouldn't be making less money, I wouldn't have a job (and neither would thousands of others like me).
 
AIG deserved to go under for the failed and criminal actions. If they hadn't so abominably, we wouldn't be in the financial we are today.

They sold hundreds of billions of not trillions of products that they were incapable of deliving. It's outrageous that there are many people from that department at that company in jail for decades.

TR, I'm not saying you, but AIG committed more fraud than the five families of NY.
 
RJKarl said:
AIG deserved to go under for the failed and criminal actions. If they hadn't so abominably, we wouldn't be in the financial we are today.

They sold hundreds of billions of not trillions of products that they were incapable of deliving. It's outrageous that there are many people from that department at that company in jail for decades.

TR, I'm not saying you, but AIG committed more fraud than the five families of NY.
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Of course they weren't able to deliver. That's the way the financial system works.

No bank these days operates at 100% reserve banking. If everyone withdraws their funds at the same time, the bank goes under, because the bank has loaned their funds out to someone else. The same thing happened to AIG, only it's not a bank.

AIG insured securities that were filled with bundles of toxic loans that commercial and investment banks had given out to people. When the people who took out loans defaulted on them all at once, the bank went to AIG to collect the insurance money. The only problem was, AIG had insured many of these securities from many different banks, and they were all calling in at once, and AIG couldn't pay. Essentially, AIG was just a bigger bank. If AIG had gone under, they would have defaulted on all insurance payments to all banks. These banks, which then could not pay back there costumers trying to withdraw funds, would all go under. And voila, you have a total collapse of the world banking system.

Does some responsibility lie with AIG? Sure. Was it fraud? No. Congress was so riled up because of this ordeal, if they had found criminal activity, the perpetrator would have gotten the needle, believe me.

Ironically, most of the responsibility lied with Congress, who repealed the Glass-Steagall Act which separates commercial and investment banks.
 
Aboslute crap, selling insurance is not the same thing as giving out leveaged loans. If you sell inusrance it's your fiduciary responsibility to be able to deliver on those policies.

AIG NEVER was able to that but said they could That is the definition of fraud.

Congress had NOTHING to do with illegal actions of banks, mortgage companies and investment houses. Those companies wantonly and repeatedly broke the law on levels that make prohibition in Chicgao look like pure integrity.
 
RJKarl said:
Aboslute crap, selling insurance is not the same thing as giving out leveaged loans. If you sell inusrance it's your fiduciary responsibility to be able to deliver on those policies.

AIG NEVER was able to that but said they could That is the definition of fraud.

Congress had NOTHING to do with illegal actions of banks, mortgage companies and investment houses. Those companies wantonly and repeatedly broke the law on levels that make prohibition in Chicgao look like pure integrity.
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Yeah, I know. Just like it's the fiduciary responsibility of commercial banks to pay out to customers. No bank in the United States right now, aside from the Federal Reserve, would be able to pay out to 100% of their customers if they asked for their money right now. That's not how banking works. Every bank would go bankrupt if that happened.

Most states have reserve requirements between 10% and 15% for insurance companies. AIG met that requirement, but almost all the toxic loans they were insuring defaulted, and their reserves couldn't cover the losses.

Again, that's not a crime. That's why no one was arrested.
 
TR1982 said:
Yeah, I know. Just like it's the fiduciary responsibility of commercial banks to pay out to customers. No bank in the United States right now, aside from the Federal Reserve, would be able to pay out to 100% of their customers if they asked for their money right now. That's not how banking works. Every bank would go bankrupt if that happened.

Most states have reserve requirements between 10% and 15% for insurance companies. AIG met that requirement, but almost all the toxic loans they were insuring defaulted, and their reserves couldn't cover the losses.

Again, that's not a crime. That's why no one was arrested.
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Come on dude, we all know why they weren't arrested.
 
It's not a conspiracy. There was no wrongdoing.
 
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