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IF we increase our debt limit,

What a strange group to be castigating the bail out of AIG. AIG screwed up. The investment banks screwed up. Congress screwed up by repealing Glass-Stegall.

And without the bailout of the banks and AIG, dirk and rj would be blowing guys in the alley for loose change, while jh would be trying to go back and get a gubmint job.

There wasn't a choice.
 
Do we as citizens really care!?

I mean, really, we have the Michael Lewis' of the world drawing us maps of how it all went down. Both parties are equally complicit in the deal.

Does anybody really honestly care!?

No tougher regulations have been enacted...if anything the market makers are working overtime to be even less regulated...the people who warned us of the dangers have all been villified while the folks who led the demise have been made whole.

Stop this fucking non-sense...until we wake up and have an "Egyptian Moment" -- you know, actually use facebook to circumvent corporate media and exchange ideas as opposed to making all your friends aware of just what a pain in the ass it is to get caught up in Hartsfield International then we can expect more of the same.

Unfortunately, in my estimation, we appear incapable of challenging the status quo with serious ideas. In the age when entertainment and public discourse have become so intertwined it is difficult to express seriousness. Anyone who expresses themselves without an accompanying 'laugh track' is considered a "conspiracy theorist".

Colbert and Stewart are prime examples of this phenomenon...never are they less compelling than when they stray from humor and attempt to interject some serious critique. Now, you may say "that's because they are meant as comedic relief lectro...we don't want seriousness from these guys". You may be correct. Nevertheless, these two entertain guys like Michael Lewis while the GE's and Murdoch's of the world have no interest in profiling the ideas of someone insiders view as a rabble-rouser. It is convenient for him to appear on comedy central...it works better than giving him prime time network or major cable news access. He is making a serious critique of how Wall Street actually operates and if you are going to say that in all honesty "Wall Street is itself an enormous fucking ponzi scheme" then you need an outlet for the nervous laughter that is sure to follow.

I have not completely formulated the psychology of why this is but I'd guess that a comedy channel purporting to give the "news that the News networks eschew" is basically acting as an avenue for expression of "helplessness" within the society. You broach such topics and you quickly find out that the cynicism turns to an edginess and the person you are engaging basically says "yea, that's great but what the fk can I do about it!?"

So we here in America have yet to have an Arab moment...and to a large degree it seems we have become self-satisfied with the limits of our Republic. The ready answer is "if you don't like it here then move to fucking China"... I'm sorry, but none of the folks who started this experiment would have accepted that as an "answer".
 
I never said there wasn't a need for a bailout. However, some of the conditions for the bailout should have been putting a lot AIG management in jail for very lng sentences. Another condsition should have been the elimnation of all bonuses at the company. If that meant putting them into bankruptcy to void the contract, so be it.

In the history of the world there has never been a bigger corporate fraud than AIG.

It was wrong to end Glass Steagall. But end it in no way saidto banks, mortgage companies and investment houses that it was OK to commit hundreds of thosuands, if not millions of felonies.

Two administrations have failed in their responsibilities to punish those who so callously commited these crimes.

The Obama DOJ should be putting lots of people from BofA and other institutions into jail as well as fining them and the companies for their illegal forclosure actions.

If the worst that can happen is the company loses some money down the road, then these illegal will be fatored into bottom lines. We need those in charge and those down the line who di the act to face huge fines and long jail time for their actions.
 
I never said there wasn't a need for a bailout. However, some of the conditions for the bailout should have been putting a lot AIG management in jail for very lng sentences. Another condsition should have been the elimnation of all bonuses at the company. If that meant putting them into bankruptcy to void the contract, so be it.

In the history of the world there has never been a bigger corporate fraud than AIG.

It was wrong to end Glass Steagall. But end it in no way saidto banks, mortgage companies and investment houses that it was OK to commit hundreds of thosuands, if not millions of felonies.

Two administrations have failed in their responsibilities to punish those who so callously commited these crimes.
The Obama DOJ should be putting lots of people from BofA and other institutions into jail as well as fining them and the companies for their illegal forclosure actions.

If the worst that can happen is the company loses some money down the road, then these illegal will be fatored into bottom lines. We need those in charge and those down the line who di the act to face huge fines and long jail time for their actions.

That's great, but until constituents of both parties agree to shoot some of their sacred cows then we are left with a situation where the upper echelon of decision making remains insulated from active prosecution.

For example, in your case...if you remain incapable of putting Franklin Raines and Barney Frank on the chopping block then you can hang up any expectation of getting the corporate criminals served. But RJ, I fully expect your response to be something along the lines of "well, whatever their role, if any, certainly pales in comparison to the Republican party and their corrupt and shameless behaviour".

We will never get past the "he said, she said" until everyone admits that they had "skin in the game"...until such time expect more of the same.
 
Barney Frank did NOTHING that forced companies to comit felonies. Nor did any Republican.

If you CARED to read what I said, you'd know I blamed BOTH administrations and went further to blaming Holder for not prosecuting BofA and others for rampant fraud in their forclosure departments.

But don't be bothered by what i actually said when you can make up mindless bullshit to suit your need.
 
Barney Frank did NOTHING that forced companies to comit felonies. Nor did any Republican.

If you CARED to read what I said, you'd know I blamed BOTH administrations and went further to blaming Holder for not prosecuting BofA and others for rampant fraud in their forclosure departments.

But don't be bothered by what i actually said when you can make up mindless bullshit to suit your need.

Go Fuck Yourself You Partisan Hack...

And Barney Frank's ASS should be in fucking JAIL. Period.
 
Fine post, lectro. I'd say the Comedy Central phenomenon is an extension of the old "laughing to keep from crying" idea.
 
It's partisan to blame BOTH parties? and then blame the party you are alleging me to partisan in favor of more?

No one can be as stupid as what you posted. Can they?
 
The whole corporate conspiracy thing is just so goddamn lazy. How about this: one of you go through the Congressional hearings, then find me a statute or common law ruling that shows that any of the AIG executives committed a felony. I'm so sick of "we all know that the corporations run the government!" and "if these guys didn't pay off Congress, they'd be in jail for life!". It's what I would expect out of a twenty something pothead who watches Comedy Central at night and thinks he knows politics. Go ahead and show me where one of those AIG executives that got off committed a crime. If it's so obvious, it shouldn't be difficult to prove. I'm sure the only response to this post will be more corporate conspiracy drivel, because that's all you (read: lectro) know. Anyways, I'll be waiting.
 
The whole corporate conspiracy thing is just so goddamn lazy. How about this: one of you go through the Congressional hearings, then find me a statute or common law ruling that shows that any of the AIG executives committed a felony. I'm so sick of "we all know that the corporations run the government!" and "if these guys didn't pay off Congress, they'd be in jail for life!". It's what I would expect out of a twenty something pothead who watches Comedy Central at night and thinks he knows politics. Go ahead and show me where one of those AIG executives that got off committed a crime. If it's so obvious, it shouldn't be difficult to prove. I'm sure the only response to this post will be more corporate conspiracy drivel, because that's all you (read: lectro) know. Anyways, I'll be waiting.

Waiting for what you fucking moron? For you!?God damn son I could get more intellectual curiosity from talking to a band of circus midgets..

No, no corporations don't have any influence on how we are governed....

That's why nobody really cares about campaign finance reform smart guy.
 
It's your lack of intellectual curiosity which is the root of your belief in a giant corporate conspiracy. No one will deny that corporate America has a heavy influence in politics. That much is obvious. To say that AIG executives committed multiple felonies and were exonerated because they paid off members of Congress is idiotic, and more importantly, lazy. Any Joe Schmo with an IQ of 80 can chalk up important political events to giant corporate conspiracies. It's called looking for a single causation, and anybody can do it. Do some reading. Investigate. Prove me wrong. Show me this big corporate conspiracy. Oh wait, I bet you can't, because the corporations and Congress cover their tracks! It's a convenient embedded excuse in any conspiracy theory. The fact of the matter is, if you had spent any time around a large corporation or on Capitol Hill, you'd know that these broad sweeping conspiracies wouldn't last a day without someone leaking it to the public.
 
It's your lack of intellectual curiosity which is the root of your belief in a giant corporate conspiracy. No one will deny that corporate America has a heavy influence in politics. That much is obvious. To say that AIG executives committed multiple felonies and were exonerated because they paid off members of Congress is idiotic, and more importantly, lazy. Any Joe Schmo with an IQ of 80 can chalk up important political events to giant corporate conspiracies. It's called looking for a single causation, and anybody can do it. Do some reading. Investigate. Prove me wrong. Show me this big corporate conspiracy. Oh wait, I bet you can't, because the corporations and Congress cover their tracks! It's a convenient embedded excuse in any conspiracy theory. The fact of the matter is, if you had spent any time around a large corporation or on Capitol Hill, you'd know that these broad sweeping conspiracies wouldn't last a day without someone leaking it to the public.

I'm going to proceed just as you have...therefore I'll not read what you actually said but will
instead mangle the shit out of your thoughts in a manner that brings Hannity to mind.Then I'll
just ramble on and on about conspiracies neverminding that basic corruption will do just fine,
thankyou.



On another note, look at those zany Brits would you?... going on like that over a,well, a conspiracy. Damn that intractable word! But really, what is going on in Great Britian? Oh,I know, it is all a "huge misunderstanding and we must remember to allow our precious due process to work..as well the police must be allowed to take over this investigation and go wherever it leads". The Prime Minister was roundly jeered and hissed when delivered these words in the House of Lords.

Nah, major news corporations (as but an immediate example of a large and powerful corporation can't wield any influence over how Grear Britian conducts it's affairs...we all know this and some 72 hours ago knew it to be a "conspiracy theory".

Now I must get back to my bong and my Comedy Central.
 
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Wait, I'm the one rambling? That's rich.

Again, I'm not arguing that corruption doesn't exist. But when you talk about "facebook uprisings", having an "Arab moment" and "circumventing corporate media", it seems to me that you are suggesting that corporate America is controlling our political system to sinister ends. Correct me if I'm wrong.

As for the example you brought up, the scandal over in the UK right now isn't exactly the best one to make your point. If anything, it works against you. The newspaper was using illicit means to gain information to release to the public. There is no evidence that they were any way controlling MPs via extortion, or trying to cover up corruption. If anything, they were trying to expose it.

One last thing, you asked what I was waiting for in my post (and of course, if you had actually read it you would have known). I'm waiting for someone to demonstrate to me how anyone at AIG committed a felony during the banking crisis. If it actually happened, it shouldn't be hard to find. That's all.
 
Recently I was sitting among my brother-in-law and a group of his colleagues who work as prosecutors in the Justice Department's NY office. My brother-in-law is a decorated Navy man and Regional JAG Commander who is under consideration to be appointed legal attache to The Secretary of the Navy...

During the conversation one of the NY prosecutors said this " if the the Justice Department were not run by big donors then we'd be going up and down Wall Street charging them under RICO." The other 5 Prosecutors at the table just quietly nodded in assent.

I thought I'd misheard so I asked him to repeat it. He did.

Now, I understand Hannity hasn't had a segment on anything like this so for you it probably sounds like a UFO sighting.

But I'll leave it to you, in your sweet naivette, to question these fellas.
 
I'm truly shocked that you can't produce anything other than anecdotal evidence.

Oh, and also, your brother's friends were probably referring to prosecuting them for insider trading, not bribing or extorting government officials.
 
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I'm truly shocked that you can't produce anything other than anecdotal evidence.

Oh, and also, your brother's friends were probably referring to prosecuting them for insider trading, not bribing or extorting government officials.

No, there's nothing but anecdotal evidence through the entire meltdown smart guy...from Chris Dodd and Barney Frank (then heading financial and banking committees) receiving 4% loans on their homes from Angelo at Countrywide and not seeing "anything special or odd" in getting loans 2 and a quarter below norm to ...whatever, you are right. Your government is on the up and up and always...

The point of the conversation was "big donors" keep the U.S. Justice Department from investigating crimes.

No worries...just keep on trucking. Everybody that questions the current media reportage is just a conspiracy theorist and the idea that corporate advertising dollars determine much of what news is "fit to print" is just a myth. There is no such thing as the manufacture of consent. (Edward Hermann/Noam Chomsky)
 
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What could you buy in 1965 for $1 that you can but for $3 today?

Houses have gone many more times than that.

Fries at MCDs were $0.15...now you might get them for $1.

A Mustang cost $2499. how much is it now?

Also our GDP in 1965 was about $2.8-2.95T with tax revenues of about $600-700B.

Today our GDP is in excess of $14T with tax revenues of $2.15T.

We are paying LESS in taxes in relation to the value of economy.

In fact if we paid the same percentage of GDP in taxes, we wouldn't be having a serious deficit problem.

Your premise is total BS.

I take it you missed the part that said "Inflation Adjusted Dollars (2010)," RJ.
 
Barney Frank did NOTHING that forced companies to comit felonies. Nor did any Republican.

If you CARED to read what I said, you'd know I blamed BOTH administrations and went further to blaming Holder for not prosecuting BofA and others for rampant fraud in their forclosure departments.

But don't be bothered by what i actually said when you can make up mindless bullshit to suit your need.

How about Jon Corzine?

Sure, he didn't do anything during his time as a politician (that I know of), but he was chairman of Goldman Sachs during the run-up.
 
I take it you missed the part that said "Inflation Adjusted Dollars (2010)," RJ.

I also looked up the REAL numbers. The % of taxes vs. GDP. Today it's at an historic low for the past 60+ years.
 
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