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ICE arrests nearly 700 in immigration raid in MS

I agree with all of this. It wasn't that long ago that uncollected produce rotted all over Alabama because the undocumented workforce was scared away.

I consider myself a moderate. I believe in entitlement reform because I've seen the downside of the current system, but still believe in a safety net to get people back on their feet. If the anti-immigration crowd wasn't purely racist, and were actual conservatives, they would be embracing people who came here simply to work, without a safety net, welfare, access to medicaid, etc. Somehow, they make it here on hard work and strong family support. Meanwhile, we have a bunch of fucking losers acting like they would be CEO of Wells Fargo if it weren't for the illegals holding them back. Fuck them.

Agree with you and Cat. Which is why I pointed out the side effects of mass raids on local communities earlier. And yes, farm work and poultry plants are 2 industries where you find precious few long term US citizens working - it's tough and disgusting work. And this is also why that bastion of liberal politics, the Chamber of Commerce, is in favor of comprehensive immigration reform and having a sufficient immigrant labor force. When talking to conservative friends about immigration topics, especially lower end jobs, this is always good to mention. Establishment Pubs can get this concept, but not Trump's cultists, which appears to be about 90% of the current Pub party.
 
Trumpism is primarily about (1) making excuses for personal failures and shortcomings by blaming brown people (immigrants, China, etc.) and (2) making successful people just as miserable (see, owning the libs).
 
In response to Highland Deac, I don't disagree with you. But I do think it's bad politics. My guess: 25% of the country loves this, 50% hate it. Building the wall (even if Mexico doesn't pay for it) is far more popular. The images of distraught children - who are completely innocent victims - cannot possibly be good for Trump. This is very sad.

I've said this multiple times, but once again. If this were really about "rule of law," and if the administration and the right actually gave a shit about "illegal" immigration, they would be going after the employers 10x as hard as the employees. Imagine a system where the drug user faces harsher penalties than the dealer. Not a perfect comparison, but you get the idea.

I agree that it's bad politics, but Trump doesn't care. He only cares about his base that adores him, and I think he's convinced himself that the route to victory next year lies in getting every last member of his base out to vote, and screw everybody else. I don't think it's necessarily a winning strategy, but he's going to do it anyway, unless some GOP strategist or pol privately manages to convince of him of what you just wrote. He's really only governed to his base since January 2017, and he doesn't seem very interested in broadening his base now.
 
I agree that it's bad politics, but Trump doesn't care. He only cares about his base that adores him, and I think he's convinced himself that the route to victory next year lies in getting every last member of his base out to vote, and screw everybody else. I don't think it's necessarily a winning strategy, but he's going to do it anyway, unless some GOP strategist or pol privately manages to convince of him of what you just wrote. He's really only governed to his base since January 2017, and he doesn't seem very interested in broadening his base now.

This would be a good point to remind people that a President who has been accused of working with Russians who we know hacked into voting machines in all 50 states is campaigning without trying to gain more votes.
 
Your argument is that going to federal prison is less impactful one someone’s family than getting deported.

Congratulations on your semantic victory.

I didn’t argue that. It’s pretty disrespectful to respond to people without reading their posts.
 
I agree that it's bad politics, but Trump doesn't care. He only cares about his base that adores him, and I think he's convinced himself that the route to victory next year lies in getting every last member of his base out to vote, and screw everybody else. I don't think it's necessarily a winning strategy, but he's going to do it anyway, unless some GOP strategist or pol privately manages to convince of him of what you just wrote. He's really only governed to his base since January 2017, and he doesn't seem very interested in broadening his base now.

I don't know that it's even bad politics. I'm sure everyone on Fox other than Smith and Wallace is defending it. I was posting about this a week or 2 ago. He's doubling down on throwing red meat to his base to make sure they gotv, and it's only going to get worse. Meanwhile, the Dems have a pretty weak field that appears content on engaging in mild cannibalism. I still think the election is a 50/50 proposition, and I grow more worried as time goes on.
 
Trumpism is primarily about (1) making excuses for personal failures and shortcomings by blaming brown people (immigrants, China, etc.) and (2) making successful people just as miserable (see, owning the libs).

Yep. In an odd way Trumpism is a kind of class war, although it was Republicans who for years claimed that it was the Democrats who played the classes against one another.
 
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I don't know that it's even bad politics. I'm sure everyone on Fox other than Smith and Wallace is defending it. I was posting about this a week or 2 ago. He's doubling down on throwing red meat to his base to make sure they gotv, and it's only going to get worse. Meanwhile, the Dems have a pretty weak field that appears content on engaging in mild cannibalism. I still think the election is a 50/50 proposition, and I grow more worried as time goes on.

I don't disagree with that either, I also think the election could easily go either way. I do think actions like this are going to prevent Trump from winning by a large, or even comfortable margin, as some Republicans keep thinking. Even with a weak Democratic candidate it will be a close race, because Trump keeps alienating as many people as he attracts. Basically, the net political effect is probably a wash, much like his attacks on "the squad" or Baltimore and Cummings.
 
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Whats insane to me is that plants like these most likely won't be able to operate without an illegal workforce.

For those who don't know there are most likely spots in hell people would rather be than in a "chicken farm/plant". People working there deserve medals not to be deported, a large part of Americas economy relies on this workforce. It is counter productive to our economy to stop it. Hard truth is the doped out legal workforce in Miss. would rather be living on government assistance and shooting poison in theirs arms, then busting there ass for honest pay in one of these places.

This.
 
And you ignored counterpoints to your claim it was comparable.



Who knew WakeandBake was in league with BIG CHICKEN?

Should call you ShakeandBake from now on.

Im a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.
 
Yep. In an odd way Trumpism is a kind of class war, although it was Republicans who for years claimed that it was the Democrats who played the classes against one another.

Is a class war in which old money elites rile up poor and working class whites against new money elites, the educated class, and poor and working class minorities. It’s not new warfare. We’ve just come back to the 1800s.
 
Is a class war in which old money elites rile up poor and working class whites against new money elites, the educated class, and poor and working class minorities. It’s not new warfare. We’ve just come back to the 1800s.

+1.
 
I don't disagree with that either, I also think the election could easily go either way. I do think actions like this are going to prevent Trump from winning by a large, or even comfortable margin, as some Republicans keep thinking. Even with a weak Democratic candidate it will be a close race, because Trump keeps alienating as many people as he attracts. Basically, the net political effect is probably a wash, much like his attacks on "the squad" or Baltimore and Cummings.

I can go along with your friendly amendment that it's a net wash. And agreed Trump doesn't win easily, though I again assert we have to win the popular vote by 4-5% to win the EC. I just wish the candidates would dial back the cannibalism and stop bashing Obama. You can go after Biden plenty without going after Obama. They should talk about building on Obama (like Warren does) instead of giving Trump opportunities to laugh that they're complaining more about Obama than him. The latter is a losing strategy.
 
I would prefer US policy be more aggressive in its prosecution of business owners who violate immigration laws, both in raw numbers and in proportion to immigrant arrests. That would do more to curb illegal immigration than a wall would, or than rounding up pockets of undocumented aliens will. If that is the end, this should be the means.

My understanding is that a lot of these companies use out side contracting employment agencies to insulate them selves against immigration violations.
 
a lot of these companies use out side contracting employment agencies to insulate them selves

fify - employment contracting is a bullshit anti-labor practice that insulates companies from the repurcussions of horrible working conditions and abusive management.
 
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