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ICE arrests nearly 700 in immigration raid in MS

myDeaconmyhand said:
fify - employment contracting is a bullshit anti-labor practice that insulates companies from the repurcussions of horrible working conditions and abusive management.
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Sure, it allows companies to avoid all sorts of things and get away with lots of shit, but here we are specifically talking about immigration so I focused on that one thing the companies do.
 
Junebug said:
2 points:

1. You may be right about this, I don’t know, but aggressive enforcement of the immigration laws against these hiring companies, if they exist, would put them out of business. The principle of deterrence is the same — whether companies outsource it or do it themselves, aggressive enforcement will end the practice of hiring illegal immigrants.

2. Outsourcing the hiring of illegal immigrants would not insulate the company for whom the immigrants work from criminal liability for conspiracy to violate the immigration laws. Hiring a company to do illegal shit for you is illegal.
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1) They do exist. The benefit is that the large corporations, like Koch Poultry, gets away Scot free, the middle man might go down and a bunch of people get deported, but the practice is carried on. Koch will find another middle man who will find more labor for them, illegal or not the large corporation don't care.

2) I am going to bet the large corporations that use this practice have well paid lawyers to write these contracts with the hiring agency in a way that greatly insulates the corporation from liability. Otherwise we'd see more criminal charges being levied against the companies that run and own the factories that are getting raided.
 
In this case, Koch will hire undocumented workers who won't report sexual harassment because they fear deportation.
 
This is why the solution to illegal immigration is to attack companies and corporations that abuse the system and prey on vulnerable immigrants who are just looking to better their lives. If the government would enact legislation that forced companies to confirm the legal status of employees then the migration of immigrants from central American would slow. Without the potential for jobs, the benefit for coming to American is lessened.

The penalty for hiring illegal immigrants should be severe and actually dissuade the practice. Once the punishment is focused on business and not immigrants themselves, we can actually reform the system to allow more legal immigrants and refugees.

What we have now is the the Trump administration applying a cruel and racist barbarian system of justice in separating families without any push to punish corporations who prey on immigrants in the pursuit of profits.
 
Newenglanddeac said:
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they had a US attorney from MS on NPR earlier and when they played him this audio he was like "well, as a father of 6 it breaks my heart to hear any child suffering because of their parents' illegal activity."

go fuck yourself.
 
Junebug said:
1. With aggressive enforcement, whether of employment agencies or employing corporations directly, the practice of hiring undocumented aliens will eventually stop or be reduced to de minimus numbers.

2. No contract, no matter how well written, will insulate someone from a conspiracy charge if the government can demonstrate a tacit agreement to violate the immigration laws. A contract is a relevant fact, yes, but a prosecutor can look past the contract to what is actually going on.
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Ok, but number 2 isn’t really happening on a substantial level...so, why?
 
Once again Trump shows GOP "family values".

How many families will Trump destroy today?
 
It's pretty obvious that right now and for the past 40 years there has been no deterent value in whatever employer targeted enforcement is going on. Until top managers face personal consequences, nothing will. Fines and judgements get paid by insurance, and they hide behind the e-verify system which is apparently pretty easy to game. There have been cases where busted employers just shut down/go bankrupt and reopen under another corporate entity. Meanwhile the only people who face real consequences are the migrants and their kids.
 
I assume the Nunez family dairy farm that’s not actually in CA anymore will be subject to the same scrutiny?
 
Deacon923 said:
It's pretty obvious that right now and for the past 40 years there has been no deterent value in whatever employer targeted enforcement is going on. Until top managers face personal consequences, nothing will. Fines and judgements get paid by insurance, and they hide behind the e-verify system which is apparently pretty easy to game. There have been cases where busted employers just shut down/go bankrupt and reopen under another corporate entity. Meanwhile the only people who face real consequences are the migrants and their kids.
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...but Junebug said...
 
Deacon923 said:
It's pretty obvious that right now and for the past 40 years there has been no deterent value in whatever employer targeted enforcement is going on. Until top managers face personal consequences, nothing will. Fines and judgements get paid by insurance, and they hide behind the e-verify system which is apparently pretty easy to game. There have been cases where busted employers just shut down/go bankrupt and reopen under another corporate entity. Meanwhile the only people who face real consequences are the migrants and their kids.
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And that's never going to change. They just hide behind their contracted hiring middlemen. And you're never getting a bill through congress that would impose strict liability on employers. But I don't really fault employers here. Precious few American citizens are going to do farm work and poultry processing, so those businesses have to hire immigrant labor, some of which is going to be undocumented. That's why ICE raids are so completely stupid. They terrorize Latino immigrants, then you spend money detaining them (costs $40-50K/yr to lock someone up), then you trash a local (rural) economy, and finally you make that rural county spend money and resources taking care of the kids.
 
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