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BBall Recruiting Thread 2k20 - Watson/Adams - Gibson/Bailey ('20) & James ('21) Gone

It has to be asked: will the average star rank of the football recruiting class exceed the average star rank of the basketball recruiting class?
 
These young men and their families made great choices to get a Wake education. They did the right thing and should be happy.

On the other hand, Danny has thrown in the towel in recruiting and should be fired for doing so.
 
These young men and their families made great choices to get a Wake education. They did the right thing and should be happy.

On the other hand, Danny has thrown in the towel in recruiting and should be fired for doing so.

this
 
It has to be asked: will the average star rank of the football recruiting class exceed the average star rank of the basketball recruiting class?

Good chance football wins more games than basketball this year.
 
These young men and their families made great choices to get a Wake education. They did the right thing and should be happy.

On the other hand, Danny has thrown in the towel in recruiting and should be fired for doing so.

Danny knows they ain’t firing him regardless of what he does. Three 20 loss seasons and a 19 didn’t do it. He is going to do whatever he feels like as long as he adheres to the minimum standards and the contract and wait to be fired. That’s is what I gave up on Wake hoops this year. It is obvious no one cares.
 
Danny knows they ain’t firing him regardless of what he does. Three 20 loss seasons and a 19 didn’t do it. He is going to do whatever he feels like as long as he adheres to the minimum standards and the contract and wait to be fired. That’s is what I gave up on Wake hoops this year. It is obvious no one cares.

I am rooting hard for the football program and hoping for a great year but I hope each and every basketball game is a blow out loss.
Nothing good can come from any wins.
 
There were Wake fans that wanted Nate Oats but when you look now and reassess it's clear that Manning has built a program with a top 20 2020 recruiting class and Nate Oats hasn't even gotten a single recruit yet.
 
There were Wake fans that wanted Nate Oats but when you look now and reassess it's clear that Manning has built a program with a top 20 2020 recruiting class and Nate Oats hasn't even gotten a single recruit yet.

Mike Rhoades is doing a better job recruiting at VCU than Manning is at Wake Forest. Oats has only 1 scholarship available for the class of 2020, and is in the top 5 for multiple top 100 guys still. Danny isn'y accomplishing shit, and even if he did land a top 10 class, we all know they would still lose way more games than they should because of his coaching.

https://imgflip.com/memegenerator
 
There were Wake fans that wanted Nate Oats but when you look now and reassess it's clear that Manning has built a program with a top 20 2020 recruiting class and Nate Oats hasn't even gotten a single recruit yet.

Sarcasm, Leonard?
 
Good coaches create a plan and then confidently execute that plan. Obviously manning does neither. That is why he panics and takes players other programs won't bother recruiting. He never knew a time when a wake scholarship had value so he takes anyone that will talk to him while just rearranging the deck chairs.

F U ronnie. This is on you now currie.
 
I haven't been in a hurry to fire Manning like so many are. On a sports radio show today heard a discussion about the massive rebellion brewing in Tallahassee about Willie Taggart's failure to show any signs of a turnaround in FSU football. And my first reaction was, yea it was a bad hire, get rid of him. The same thing happened to Miami football hiring MarK Richt. Then I paused and wondered if I could have made those decisions. Nah, at least not well. It's very easy to critique from afar and very hard to decide to cut the cord on a major hire like those, or WFU basketball, without any guarantees of a solution. That's the problem. No guarantees. I'm definitely leaning toward replacing Manning if there aren't any signs of real change in our program this season. 5 years should be enough to establish a positive direction. But I'm not at all convinced that any of the replacement names that have ever shown up in our board discussions are guarantees of greater success. I think we suffer from many obstacles in addition to "poor coaching". Our best run of recruiting under Skip Prosser never produced more than a couple of ACC regular season successes. We should be careful to remember that aside from UNC, Duke, and UVA of the last 6-8 years no team in the ACC has sustained success. You can argue about FSU, Miami and VT having some improvement, but VT and Miami were blips based on recruiting, and FSU has taken well over a decade to get to their level. Somehow we've got to establish some level of stability that we can build on. It's not easy to achieve, let alone maintain, a high success level in any Power 5 major sport. Ask the SC Trojans, ND football, Michigan football, Syracuse basketball, Md basketball, Arizona basketball, UCLA basketball, Texas football, Tennessee football, and many more. Fire 'em and then hire 'em doesn't guarantee anything even if you have a pedigree.
 
While success isn't guaranteed, the level of failure currently is setting records for losses in a season and record number of losses over five seasons. The current staff isn't yo-yoing between top three and middle of the pack finishes. The current situation is the annual record bounces around in the bottom quarter of the league standings.

Because previous coaches have been able to achieve more success than the current staff, the thought that a different staff might have better results continues to run through the minds of many.
 
I haven't been in a hurry to fire Manning like so many are. On a sports radio show today heard a discussion about the massive rebellion brewing in Tallahassee about Willie Taggart's failure to show any signs of a turnaround in FSU football. And my first reaction was, yea it was a bad hire, get rid of him. The same thing happened to Miami football hiring MarK Richt. Then I paused and wondered if I could have made those decisions. Nah, at least not well. It's very easy to critique from afar and very hard to decide to cut the cord on a major hire like those, or WFU basketball, without any guarantees of a solution. That's the problem. No guarantees.

It's ok. Not everyone is born to lead and make big decisions. The world needs ditch diggers. If you're an AD at Wake Forest, you need to be capable of making big decisions.
 
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It's ok. Not everyone is born to lead and make big decisions. If you're an AD at Wake Forest, you need to be capable of it.

Evaluating football and basketball require different criteria. In basketball, everybody plays all offensive and defensive possessions so players need to be evaluated on every facet of the game. And basketball really only has three major categories of players: point guards, wings, and low post players. Getting a proper mix of these should not be that difficult. And basketball only requires five guys at a time. Therefore, it should be possible to make dramatic strides in basketball in two or three years.

Football requires many more different skill sets and the proper mix of those sets in two dozen or more guys. Therefore, IMHO, football coaches deserve a longer leash to show something than basketball coaches.
 
I haven't been in a hurry to fire Manning like so many are. On a sports radio show today heard a discussion about the massive rebellion brewing in Tallahassee about Willie Taggart's failure to show any signs of a turnaround in FSU football. And my first reaction was, yea it was a bad hire, get rid of him. The same thing happened to Miami football hiring MarK Richt. Then I paused and wondered if I could have made those decisions. Nah, at least not well. It's very easy to critique from afar and very hard to decide to cut the cord on a major hire like those, or WFU basketball, without any guarantees of a solution. That's the problem. No guarantees. I'm definitely leaning toward replacing Manning if there aren't any signs of real change in our program this season. 5 years should be enough to establish a positive direction. But I'm not at all convinced that any of the replacement names that have ever shown up in our board discussions are guarantees of greater success. I think we suffer from many obstacles in addition to "poor coaching". Our best run of recruiting under Skip Prosser never produced more than a couple of ACC regular season successes. We should be careful to remember that aside from UNC, Duke, and UVA of the last 6-8 years no team in the ACC has sustained success. You can argue about FSU, Miami and VT having some improvement, but VT and Miami were blips based on recruiting, and FSU has taken well over a decade to get to their level. Somehow we've got to establish some level of stability that we can build on. It's not easy to achieve, let alone maintain, a high success level in any Power 5 major sport. Ask the SC Trojans, ND football, Michigan football, Syracuse basketball, Md basketball, Arizona basketball, UCLA basketball, Texas football, Tennessee football, and many more. Fire 'em and then hire 'em doesn't guarantee anything even if you have a pedigree.

A lot of what you say is true in the abstract. However, the Manning experiment is truly a unique situation. Recruiting has been a failure, as compared to our historical level of recruiting. Game coaching has been a total failure - its been obvious to anyone that knows anything about the game. Player development has been largely a failure - there have been a couple of players that have shown a lot of development but because so many others have not it is unclear that those players that developed were because of Manning - or simply their own work and abilities. He's been boring and fails to bring excitement or motivation to his players, the fanbase, or in the media.
I'll give him credit for spotting talent and identifying some under the radar guys who later blew up or otherwise developed into good players. But even with the decent talent he has had on a couple of teams his poor coaching of all aspects caused those teams to under-achieve.

I was fine giving him 3 or 4 years to show something but there was no good reason that he deserved this year - he simply has not shown any signs of being a serviceable coach at all. You talk about sustaining success - ha! All we are asking for is some sign of something (anything) positive - and we haven's seen it.
 
I haven't been in a hurry to fire Manning like so many are. On a sports radio show today heard a discussion about the massive rebellion brewing in Tallahassee about Willie Taggart's failure to show any signs of a turnaround in FSU football. And my first reaction was, yea it was a bad hire, get rid of him. The same thing happened to Miami football hiring MarK Richt. Then I paused and wondered if I could have made those decisions. Nah, at least not well. It's very easy to critique from afar and very hard to decide to cut the cord on a major hire like those, or WFU basketball, without any guarantees of a solution. That's the problem. No guarantees. I'm definitely leaning toward replacing Manning if there aren't any signs of real change in our program this season. 5 years should be enough to establish a positive direction. But I'm not at all convinced that any of the replacement names that have ever shown up in our board discussions are guarantees of greater success. I think we suffer from many obstacles in addition to "poor coaching". Our best run of recruiting under Skip Prosser never produced more than a couple of ACC regular season successes. We should be careful to remember that aside from UNC, Duke, and UVA of the last 6-8 years no team in the ACC has sustained success. You can argue about FSU, Miami and VT having some improvement, but VT and Miami were blips based on recruiting, and FSU has taken well over a decade to get to their level. Somehow we've got to establish some level of stability that we can build on. It's not easy to achieve, let alone maintain, a high success level in any Power 5 major sport. Ask the SC Trojans, ND football, Michigan football, Syracuse basketball, Md basketball, Arizona basketball, UCLA basketball, Texas football, Tennessee football, and many more. Fire 'em and then hire 'em doesn't guarantee anything even if you have a pedigree.

I thought your hot takes from Friday's FB game were out there but this is new crazy shit about "guarantees of greater success" or our little chance outside of UVA, UNC or Duke for "sustained success." How about SOME success? Do you think UNC or Duke or Syracuse might have some transitional issues when their HOF coaches retire or have a stake driven thru his heart? That might allow another team or two to find some success?
 
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