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Official 2020 NBA Offseason - First Half Season Schedule Out

The trade had nothing whatsoever to do with getting Hunter. It shouldn't be included in any way about this.

Trae Young is a terrible shooter for a guard. He shot 28-108 for his last 11 games in college on threes and 32.4% on threes as a rookie. He could improve, but he is vastly overrated.
 
The trade had nothing whatsoever to do with getting Hunter. It shouldn't be included in any way about this.

Trae Young is a terrible shooter for a guard. He shot 28-108 for his last 11 games in college on threes and 32.4% on threes as a rookie. He could improve, but he is vastly overrated.

I thought I made this point clear, but trades should be analyzed within the context of what a team is doing. Atlanta has a clear plan to mask Trae's deficiencies and play to his strengths, which makes him more valuable than if he was on a team that did not do that, and which is something that absolutely factors into how a trade is analyzed. Trae is more valuable on the Hawks than he would be on the Mavericks, and that is something that is worth considering within the context of the trade.

Bringing up his stats from college is absolutely ridiculous. With all the media attention he got in March that college season, every teams' plan was to double and triple team him, and he still shot high volume anyway because that was still the best option that Oklahoma team had. Thinking those statistics are predictive of his future shows that you don't really know what you are talking about here/are just grasping at straws to sound more correct than you are.

Trae slumped pretty horribly early in the year, shooting 19.8% from 3 in 16 games in November, which coincidentally is also when a bad Hawks team didn't have John Collins back from injury yet. However, he shot 34.8% from 3 after the all star break while averaging 24.7 and 9.2 assists. If you think a rookie, ball-dominant PG's stats from early in his rookie year are more predictive than his end of year stats, then continue to make that argument all that you want. But I think you're wrong on this one.

Once again, I love Doncic and think that he's the better player, but I can see what Atlanta is trying to do and I don't fault them for it.
 
He is a really good passer. That's undeniable.

There's no reason to get personal. I didn't do that to you. It's totally uncalled for.

They no idea they would end up with the Lakers' #4 pick when they traded Doncic. For you to include that is totally without merit. It's outrageous that try to add that in when it couldn't possibly been planned when they made the trade. There's no way on Earth to say this had ANY impact on the Young/Doncic deal.

RE: After the All-Star break, that was 23 games. He had 40 others between when John came back and the All Star game and shot worse.
 
He is a really good passer. That's undeniable.

There's no reason to get personal. I didn't do that to you. It's totally uncalled for.

They no idea they would end up with the Lakers' #4 pick when they traded Doncic. For you to include that is totally without merit. It's outrageous that try to add that in when it couldn't possibly been planned when they made the trade. There's no way on Earth to say this had ANY impact on the Young/Doncic deal.

RE: After the All-Star break, that was 23 games. He had 40 others between when John came back and the All Star game and shot worse.

Not really sure how I got personal, but apologies if what I said came off that way.

I'm not "including" Hunter in the trade to make it sound better. What I'm saying is that the Hawks have a clear plan, which includes all the players on their team, into which Trae is a very good fit. I think that knowledge impacts how you should view the trade. If you don't want to look at trades with context and prefer to look at them with a vacuum of only the players involved in the trade, then we are having different discussions here.

Also, that's a fair point regarding his shooting. Breaking it down by month:
November: 19.8%
December: 34.7%
January: 33.7%
February: 43.7%
March: 33.7%

Going forwards, I think it's fair to expect somewhere around 35-38% from him as the weapons around him are added (Hunter/Reddish)/ get better (Huerter/Collins), which will take defensive pressure away from him. Also, ball-dominant rookie point guards tend to have steeper improvements as seasons go on and they become more comfortable running the offense, especially for a team like ATL that plays very, very fast.

Obviously, I'm high on both Trae and ATL's future. I actually think that the hawks will still be bad this year, as their big man situation outside of John is abysmal, the loss of Dedmon will hurt. But I think it's possible both Trae and John compete for spots on the all star team this year, and I think Trae putting up something like 25/9 on decent efficiency is within the realm of possibility.
 
The Hawks had a plan to get multiple lottery picks and they executed it.

You can criticize the Reddish pick given their big man situation but he’s a high ceiling wing player and those are always valuable.
 
The Hawks had a plan to get multiple lottery picks and they executed it.

You can criticize the Reddish pick given their big man situation but he’s a high ceiling wing player and those are always valuable.

Agreed. They clearly are prioritizing high-risk, high-ceiling type players (Young, Reddish), during this period where they aren't really trying to compete. I'd be willing to wager that they select the safest big man available with their lottery pick this year and then start really trying to compete.
 
Yeah. They’re trying to be like the Warriors. They have their Steph in Young. They have an offensive version of Draymond in Collins. They think Huerter could be their Klay. Maybe Reddish could be their Barnes. Plus acquiring the #4 got them Hunter who has a very high ceiling and should immediately help their defense. And they’ll have plenty of cap room to chase a top FA in two years.
 
There is no way they could have planned lucking into being part of the Anthony Davis trade unless Nostradamus is their GM.

BTW, I like taking Reddish and using Heurter as a sixth man.

I don't see them getting the first pick. Wiseman might be available at #2. Isaiah Stewart is more of an offensive player, he might be available as low as #7. Bassey may be taking a risk, but he should be available up to #10 or maybe a little later.
 
Yeah. They’re trying to be like the Warriors. They have their Steph in Young. They have an offensive version of Draymond in Collins. They think Huerter could be their Klay. Maybe Reddish could be their Barnes. Plus acquiring the #4 got them Hunter who has a very high ceiling and should immediately help their defense. And they’ll have plenty of cap room to chase a top FA in two years.

Draymond is, like, the worst comp for Collins
 
Draymond is, like, the worst comp for Collins

It's not really a comp. I'm just saying the Hawks are trying to draft their way into contention like the Warriors did. But if you're so offended that I said Collins was an "offensive version of Draymond," feel free to explain why.
 
lol

a well-wrought post refuting rj's dumb take is getting "personal"

"Thinking those statistics are predictive of his future shows that you don't really know what you are talking about here/are just grasping at straws to sound more correct than you are." Is personal.

BTW, his "well-wrought post" is based on hope that Young changes his game dramatically and all the other guys improve a lot.

I'd much rather have a core three of Doncic/Collins/Hunter than core four of Collins/Hunter/Young/Reddish. Doncic pushes the ball at a good rate, is an elite passer, has shown he can produce, can play multiple positions which their team more latitude in drafting, trades and free agency.
 
It's not really a comp. I'm just saying the Hawks are trying to draft their way into contention like the Warriors did. But if you're so offended that I said Collins was an "offensive version of Draymond," feel free to explain why.

yes, offended is the right word to use there

From 2018-19 (rank among forwards in parentheses):

Usage rate: JC - 23.0 (34); Draymond - 12.8 (217)

Assist rate: JC - 10.2 (102) ; Draymond - 26.1 (8)

Offensive rebound rate: JC -11.2 (9); Draymond - 3.1 (165)

EFG% - JC - 59.3 (30); Draymond - 50.1 (166)

TO rate: JC - 10.2; Draymond - 15.6
 
I love JC and am having fun watching him improve, but I bet Draymond's defensive number dwarf JC's offensive numbers. They would have to be virtually equal for him to be "an offensive version of Draymond".
 
yes, offended is the right word to use there

From 2018-19 (rank among forwards in parentheses):

Usage rate: JC - 23.0 (34); Draymond - 12.8 (217)

Assist rate: JC - 10.2 (102) ; Draymond - 26.1 (8)

Offensive rebound rate: JC -11.2 (9); Draymond - 3.1 (165)

EFG% - JC - 59.3 (30); Draymond - 50.1 (166)

TO rate: JC - 10.2; Draymond - 15.6

OK. So what's your point? The Hawks can't win down the road with Collins as a PF? They should trade him?
 
that Draymond and Collins have very dissimilar games, even when limiting it to just offense
 
Official 2019-20 NBA Preseason Thread (Zion already out for weeks #tooathletic)

Right. You said that. So what’s your point? Do you not think the Hawks can win with that formula? Collins has more value putting points on the board than trading him. I don’t know if Huerter is going to be a defender like Klay or Reddish will shoot like Barnes in the championship season. But I do think all four plus Hunter are high ceiling players who could play well together.

Hollinger thinks the Hawks are “light years” away from the playoffs.

Hollinger’s NBA Division Previews: Butler turns up the Heat in the Southeast https://theathletic.com/1301625/201...my-butler-turns-up-the-heat-in-the-southeast/
 
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Official 2019-20 NBA Preseason Thread (Zion already out for weeks #tooathletic)

Siakam gets a max deal. Good move by the Raptors. He's going to be fantastic this year.

Thinking about doing a NBA Playoff Prediction Contest. Simple rules. List the 8 teams each from the East and West in order of seeding. One point for each team you get right. One extra point for getting the seeding right. Any interest?
 
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