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2019-20 MLB Hot Stove Thread...

Wow, lot of discussion. It's a stupid rule. It rewarded a horrible throw and a bad stretch. Turner ran fine, and it should not have been called on out in a world series, but the rule says judgement call, and Umpshow always wins.
 
Deaconblue said:
By the reasoning in the last paragraph, should first basemen be playing more vertical and occupying more of the bag? That way on those close plays, there would be a greater chance of the runner contacting the fielder and interfering with the catch. That is, instead of having a toe against the second base side of first base, the fielder puts his foot across the bulk of the top of first base. If the runner hits him and he flinches and misses or drops the ball, batter out. Interference.
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That’s a good way to get your Achilles’ tendon torn. And no it would work because it wouldn’t be impeding the first baseman’s ability to catch the ball.

Lots if coaches teach runners to do what turner did and hope it will mess up a throw or catch and the umpire won’t call it. I’ll admit it is not called consistently enough. But there’s no chance turner didn’t know the rule and was making a lame excuse that he was right at the bag when it happened. It just doesn’t matter and he looked really whiny complaining about it.

It’s a shame that fox commentators are so dumb. It just flames up umpire hatred even more. If anyone is bent it is because of the rule and not the umpire judgment. So he mad at MLB not the umpires. It was a terribly easy call. They don’t paint the running lane lines for decoration.
 
DaDeacs said:
Wow, lot of discussion. It's a stupid rule. It rewarded a horrible throw and a bad stretch. Turner ran fine, and it should not have been called on out in a world series, but the rule says judgement call, and Umpshow always wins.
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Really dumb take. Stupid rule in your opinion is fine. But it’s the rule. It has to be called every time it happens. Do you think you just ignore rules sometimes? And your take on umpires is asinine. They did exactly the right think by rule. And yet people like you can’t resist the urge to blast them. It’s sad really.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
Really dumb take. Stupid rule in your opinion is fine. But it’s the rule. It has to be called every time it happens. Do you think you just ignore rules sometimes? And your take on umpires is asinine. They did exactly the right think by rule. And yet people like you can’t resist the urge to blast them. It’s sad really.
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Someone's hot today. It definitely did not have to be called - Torre said it was a judgement call, whatever the Ump decides would stand. Also, Holbrook was all kinds of bad last night, but sure, I'm an ump basher.
 
DaDeacs said:
Someone's hot today. It definitely did not have to be called - Torre said it was a judgement call, whatever the Ump decides would stand. Also, Holbrook was all kinds of bad last night, but sure, I'm an ump basher.
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Meh I’m not hot. But I do believe this nonsense ruins sports in general. Torre also said it was the right call. Just because it’s judgment doesn’t mean it can be ignored at the umpires whim. It was a really easy call.

It’s funny all the whining people do about umpires. They aren’t perfect but I doubt many folks spouting off could even keep their eyes open to see a big league pitch coming straight at them. Much less have a 96% accuracy like barksdale did the other night. But everyone whines about three pitches out of hundreds. This call isn’t even really even questionable and if it could have been reviewed it would have been upheld yet people are still whining about it. Social media official bashing is pretty weak.
 
It was a bad call on a bad throw and Gomes would have advanced despite the interference.
 
Are you an umpire? The "you can't do it" expression is tired. The umps doing the world series are gonna bring in $400k+ this year, it's what they are paid to do.

If that play was never called interference, you wouldn't hear anything from either side - there would not be a complaint for the Astros, it was a bad throw and a bad stretch by Gurriel. But, it's a judgement call, it's also a bad rule.
 
The arguing over the rule here is... whatever.

But I've watched the replay and I don't know how people are claiming it was a terrible throw by the pitcher. Was it a perfect throw? No. But it was easily a catchable ball and would've been routine had Turner not been busting it down the line. Add in Smoltz's comment about pitchers being taught to throw toward the runner to try to get the interference call on close plays, and it's actually a pretty damn good throw.

Side note: Smoltz is easily one of the best colormen in the game. It sucks he has to be paired with the human toupee.
 
DaDeacs said:
Are you an umpire? The "you can't do it" expression is tired. The umps doing the world series are gonna bring in $400k+ this year, it's what they are paid to do.

If that play was never called interference, you wouldn't hear anything from either side - there would not be a complaint for the Astros, it was a bad throw and a bad stretch by Gurriel. But, it's a judgement call, it's also a bad rule.
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Hinch would have gone out there if it wasn’t called. It was clear violation of the rule. 99.99% of people spouting off about the call had never read the rule and were just sharing their very uninformed opinions. I guess that’s the world we live in now.

For the record I don’t think it’s a great rule as is. But MLB should have supported the umpires better on this. This stuff filters down and the way parents coaches and fans treat officials in this country is a real problem at the amateur level. Oh well.
 
By the letter of the rule, definitely the correct call. If you think it rewards bad throws, change the rule.
 
Just bring on the robots and get rid of these bums.

They are the ones dragging down baseball. Old, out of shape union workers. Might as well be working in an old GM fender plant.
 
CantStandYa said:
The arguing over the rule here is... whatever.

But I've watched the replay and I don't know how people are claiming it was a terrible throw by the pitcher. Was it a perfect throw? No. But it was easily a catchable ball and would've been routine had Turner not been busting it down the line. Add in Smoltz's comment about pitchers being taught to throw toward the runner to try to get the interference call on close plays, and it's actually a pretty damn good throw.

Side note: Smoltz is easily one of the best colormen in the game. It sucks he has to be paired with the human toupee.
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You need to watch the replay again, Gurriel might have missed the ball even if turner wasnt in the lane. Ball was expected in front, was thrown behind, 1B was reaching back with his glove hand across the body already in his stretch.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
So I can't believe they are looking at this and Joe Buck is absolutely botching this commentary (shocking). The rule is you have to run between the two chalk lines (in foul territory) from 45 feet down the line to the base. You can step inside the chalk the last two steps before you reach first. He ran inside the foul line all the way from the plate. He interfered with the fielder's ability to catch the ball. This is textbook runner's lane interference and I can't believe they are looking at it this long. Also everything Joe Buck said is bullshit.
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MLB Chief Baseball Officer Joe Torre disagrees with you. Per his interview postgame said the lane wasn't the issue: "he ran to first base, that wasn't the call. The call was that he interfered with Gurriel trying to catch the ball. You noticed the glove came off his hand, that's when Sam Holbrook called him out"
 
DaDeacs said:
You need to watch the replay again, Gurriel might have missed the ball even if turner wasnt in the lane. Ball was expected in front, was thrown behind, 1B was reaching back with his glove hand across the body already in his stretch.
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I've watched it a ton. If anything, it's a poor play on Gurriel's part. He stretched too early and he stretched toward SS for some reason. If he stretches properly, maybe there's no interference at all. This is what you get for having a RH 1B.
 
09deaconX said:
MLB Chief Baseball Officer Joe Torre disagrees with you. Per his interview postgame said the lane wasn't the issue: "he ran to first base, that wasn't the call. The call was that he interfered with Gurriel trying to catch the ball. You noticed the glove came off his hand, that's when Sam Holbrook called him out"
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Torre isn’t an umpire and is notoriously off on this stuff. He didn’t articulate it well. Turner wasn’t called out nor running out of the running lane. He was called out for interference. If he had knocked the glove off after having run inside the running lane and stepping out with his last step he would not have been called out. The running lane is the determining factor for whether to call interference. Torre is not an umpire and doesn’t know much about it. But he isn’t really contradicting anything just muddying the waters. Also you left out the part where he said it was the right call.

The only way knocking the glove off gets called is he was out of the lane prior to hitting it. Gloves come off all the time.
 
The purpose of the 45 foot lane to the right of the baseline is to give the catcher or pitcher a lane to throw when the batter hits dribbler in front of the plate or down the 1st baseline. The intent of the rule as it applies to the running lane is to keep a baserunner from intentionally interfering/blocking the throwing lane to first when the baserunner is on his way to first base.

The play in question involved a bouncing ball 30 feet away from the plate to the left of the pitcher in between the mound and the third base line. The 45 foot running lane had nothing to do with the play because the throw was only impacted as Turner was literally contacting first base. Unlike little league, in MLB, there is no alternate orange first base in foul territory. Turner had no other way to touch first base, and he is entitled to the base. Turner is not required to take a banana route to the base. Particularly, in his final stride to the bag.

For those claiming that the rule was correctly applied, any first baseman could hold his glove in the baseline just in front of the base on every throw to first and claim interference, which is exactly what Gurriel did by not stretching for the ball. That is not the purpose of Rule 5.09(a)(11).

As Torre said, it was a judgment call requiring an interpretation of the rule, and the umps interpreted the rule incorrectly. Predictably, Torre defended the umps after the game as the call ended up not deciding the game, and it's in MLB's interest to not admit the call was wrong. With all of that said, the rule will be clarified in the off-season to ensure that a similar call is not made in the future.
 
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Pilchard said:
The purpose of the 45 foot lane to the right of the baseline is to give the catcher or pitcher a lane to throw when the batter hits dribbler in front of the plate or down the 1st baseline. The intent of the rule is to keep a baserunner from intentionally interfering/blocking the throwing lane to first when the baserunner is on his way to first base.

The play in question involved bouncing ball 30 feet away from the plate to the left of the pitcher in between the mound and the third base line. The 45 foot running lane had nothing to do with the play because the throw was only impacted as Turner was literally contacting first base. Unlike little league, in MLB, there is no alternate orange first base in foul territory. Turner had no other way to touch first base, and he is entitled to the base. Turner is not required to take a banana route to the base. Particularly, in his final stride to the bag.

For those claiming that the rule was correctly applied, any first baseman could hold his glove in the baseline just in front of the base on every throw to first and claim interference, which is exactly what Gurriel did by not stretching for the ball. That is not the purpose of Rule 5.09(a)(11).

As Torre said, it was a judgment call requiring an interpretation of the rule, and the umps interpreted the rule incorrectly. Predictably, Torre defended the umps after the game as the call ended up not deciding the game, and it's in MLB's interest to not admit the call was wrong. With all of that said, the rule will be clarified in the off-season to ensure that a similar call is not made in the future.
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This. All of this.
 
Turd Ferguson spent a lot of words on a really bad take

some rj-level stuff right there
 
Which is light years ahead of where you have ever been.
 
Pilchard said:
The purpose of the 45 foot lane to the right of the baseline is to give the catcher or pitcher a lane to throw when the batter hits dribbler in front of the plate or down the 1st baseline. The intent of the rule as it applies to the running lane is to keep a baserunner from intentionally interfering/blocking the throwing lane to first when the baserunner is on his way to first base.

The play in question involved a bouncing ball 30 feet away from the plate to the left of the pitcher in between the mound and the third base line. The 45 foot running lane had nothing to do with the play because the throw was only impacted as Turner was literally contacting first base. Unlike little league, in MLB, there is no alternate orange first base in foul territory. Turner had no other way to touch first base, and he is entitled to the base. Turner is not required to take a banana route to the base. Particularly, in his final stride to the bag.

For those claiming that the rule was correctly applied, any first baseman could hold his glove in the baseline just in front of the base on every throw to first and claim interference, which is exactly what Gurriel did by not stretching for the ball. That is not the purpose of Rule 5.09(a)(11).

As Torre said, it was a judgment call requiring an interpretation of the rule, and the umps interpreted the rule incorrectly. Predictably, Torre defended the umps after the game as the call ended up not deciding the game, and it's in MLB's interest to not admit the call was wrong. With all of that said, the rule will be clarified in the off-season to ensure that a similar call is not made in the future.
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I agree with your take on the rule. Right handed batters almost always run inside the line. It is the natural path. In this situation if the catcher throws up the line and hits the runner it is an easy interference call. That is not what happened here. How many times do you see a third baseman or SS throw one wide to first that takes the first baseman into the runner? It is not that rare. How many times has an umpire used his judgment in those situations to call interference? I cannot ever recall seeing it.

It is the same as with his infield fly call. You can look at the rule to create an argument in his defense, but it comes down to a judgment call. How many times has an infield fly been called on a ball hit that deep? Nobody ever found anything close to that call in the history of baseball.

He used monumentally poor judgment again.
 
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