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Official 2020-2021 Charlotte Hornets Thread - Welcome to the LaGordo Era

I’m really conflicted about Hayward. On one hand, he has the talent to be a top 20 player. On the other, I’m risk averse after finally getting to the end of Batums contract and it feels like we’re doing that over again. I’d almost rather watch our young guys continue to grow.

Graham/Terry Ball Hayward Bridges/Washington Zeller strikes me as a 7-8 seed team.
 
Official 2019-2020 Charlotte Hornets Thread - Strong End to the Suspended Season

Hornets fans severely overrate their team’s talent. Like far and beyond other fans.

Hayward had one All-Star season when he was 26. He turns 31 this season.
 
Hornets fans severely overrate their team’s talent. Like far and beyond other fans.

Hayward had one All-Star season when he was 26. He turns 31 this season.

I think Graham Bridges Washington are going to keep getting better and are a solid young core. Add Ball and Hayward, and assuming healthy Zeller, finishing 1-2 spots better than the shortened season feels completely reasonable.
 
Hornets are fucked. Top 7 in the east are Bucks, Raptors, Heat, Celts, Nets, Pacers, and Sixers. So you just paid $120M and stretched Batum to chase the 8 seed. Nice.
 
Official 2019-2020 Charlotte Hornets Thread - Strong End to the Suspended Season

Hornets are fucked. Top 7 in the east are Bucks, Raptors, Heat, Celts, Nets, Pacers, and Sixers. So you just paid $120M and stretched Batum to chase the 8 seed. Nice.

It really sucks, one of the worst contracts I’ve seen given out in the last few seasons

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/...M0wbII79sTgm0_XC-Y4P8m7skHeClykNSG4W2V7Llboa8
“The Hornets just gave Gordon Hayward one of the worst free-agent contracts in recent memory”
 
That’s a good read. I like how it shows how this contract will be an albatross even if the young roster pans out and even if the cap grows. Best case scenario the Hornets are a young team in need of a big free agent in 2 years and they’ve already locked in Hayward as that free agent.
 
I don't hate the Hayward contract for a few reasons. First, the stretch Batum scenario is clearly a smokescreen to gain leverage over the Celtics to force a sign and trade. Bonnell, who is an idiot, is the only one who has reported it. The Hornets moved on Hayward to fuck up the Celtics-Pacers S&T talks for him, so by throwing out the Batum stretch as the plan it leaves the Celtics with the strong likelihood of getting nothing in return. That forces Ainge to the table during the moratorium to work something out - basically MJ being the vengeful MFer he is and reversing the Kemba-Rozier situation with Boston. So I think there is a decent likelihood of Batum or Rozier going to Boston (Rozier likely then moved to a 3rd team). That's why, even though they reportedly re-signed Biyombo at some minimum number, the amount hasn't been reported as they are still trying to move things around. Obviously that could blow up and Ainge call the bluff and we end up having to stretch Batum, but I like Kupchak having the balls to fuck with him.

As has been discussed ad nauseum, the Hornets are not a FA destination. Their only chance for sustained success is to build through the draft and supplement that with mid-level FAs when possible, often overpaying for them. They've hit on all of their recent picks, so, accurately or not, are probably assuming that they hit on LaMelo. The success of this team is not hinging on Hayward, it is hinging on PJ, Davonte, LaMelo, Bridges, Monk, the Martins, etc. But Hayward, assuming healthy which is obviously a big if, fills a need and is a guy who wants to be here. He signed the offer sheet here a few years ago before Utah matched it, so he likes something about the area. He makes them a likely playoff contender, and I value that experience for the young guys over the increased lottery ball chances.

I obviously like this a lot more if Rozier or Batum ultimately heads out as part of the deal, but even if not I understand why they did it and am looking forward to watching him fit in with the rest of the roster.
 
...the stretch Batum scenario is clearly a smokescreen to gain leverage over the Celtics to force a sign and trade. Bonnell, who is an idiot, is the only one who has reported it. The Hornets moved on Hayward to fuck up the Celtics-Pacers S&T talks for him, so by throwing out the Batum stretch as the plan it leaves the Celtics with the strong likelihood of getting nothing in return. That forces Ainge to the table during the moratorium to work something out - basically MJ being the vengeful MFer he is and reversing the Kemba-Rozier situation with Boston. So I think there is a decent likelihood of Batum or Rozier going to Boston (Rozier likely then moved to a 3rd team). That's why, even though they reportedly re-signed Biyombo at some minimum number, the amount hasn't been reported as they are still trying to move things around. Obviously that could blow up and Ainge call the bluff and we end up having to stretch Batum, but I like Kupchak having the balls to fuck with him.
...
I obviously like this a lot more if Rozier or Batum ultimately heads out as part of the deal.

Are you saying that Charlotte is going to trade Hayward’s new contract back to the Celtics? Otherwise, what is the “trade” part of this sign and trade scenario you’re talking about?
 
I don't hate the Hayward contract for a few reasons. First, the stretch Batum scenario is clearly a smokescreen to gain leverage over the Celtics to force a sign and trade. Bonnell, who is an idiot, is the only one who has reported it. The Hornets moved on Hayward to fuck up the Celtics-Pacers S&T talks for him, so by throwing out the Batum stretch as the plan it leaves the Celtics with the strong likelihood of getting nothing in return. That forces Ainge to the table during the moratorium to work something out - basically MJ being the vengeful MFer he is and reversing the Kemba-Rozier situation with Boston. So I think there is a decent likelihood of Batum or Rozier going to Boston (Rozier likely then moved to a 3rd team). That's why, even though they reportedly re-signed Biyombo at some minimum number, the amount hasn't been reported as they are still trying to move things around. Obviously that could blow up and Ainge call the bluff and we end up having to stretch Batum, but I like Kupchak having the balls to fuck with him.

As has been discussed ad nauseum, the Hornets are not a FA destination. Their only chance for sustained success is to build through the draft and supplement that with mid-level FAs when possible, often overpaying for them. They've hit on all of their recent picks, so, accurately or not, are probably assuming that they hit on LaMelo. The success of this team is not hinging on Hayward, it is hinging on PJ, Davonte, LaMelo, Bridges, Monk, the Martins, etc. But Hayward, assuming healthy which is obviously a big if, fills a need and is a guy who wants to be here. He signed the offer sheet here a few years ago before Utah matched it, so he likes something about the area. He makes them a likely playoff contender, and I value that experience for the young guys over the increased lottery ball chances.

I obviously like this a lot more if Rozier or Batum ultimately heads out as part of the deal, but even if not I understand why they did it and am looking forward to watching him fit in with the rest of the roster.

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Are you saying that Charlotte is going to trade Hayward’s new contract back to the Celtics? Otherwise, what is the “trade” part of this sign and trade scenario you’re talking about?

The Celtics are over the cap with Hayward. They are allowed to go over the cap to resign their own player (Hayward) but if he just leaves as a FA they can't go over the cap to sign someone else, so they just lose the ability to spend his contract number. But, since the Hornets are under the cap, the Celtics can sign him to the Hornets numbers and trade him to either create a traded player exception coming back, which they have 1 year to use, or get someone (Rozier) back in that overage slot. If the Celtics want the TPE they probably have to give the Hornets a second round pick, if they take Rozier to package to someone else then the Hornets probably don't ask for anything else.

It is basically what happened last year with Kemba; he didn't actually sign with Boston, we signed him to the contract terms he had negotiated with Boston and then traded him to Boston so that we could get something (Rozier again) back in return. So a lot of this is MJ giving the finger to Ainge for last year.
 
So you’d rather trade to get Hayward instead of just getting him?
 
The idea from Charlotte’s perspective would be that Boston would like to do a sign and trade to add a big trade exception, so maybe you can get an asset back and/or move a contract you don’t want
 
If you can make that work to get rid of roziers contract, that would leave open the possibility of keeping Batum and his expiring deal as a possible asset to use before the deadline this year which would be infinitely better than the stretch scenario.

As structured/reported, the Hayward signing and Batum waiving is mind blowingly bad.
 
So the Hornets could trade Rozier back to Celtics to get Hayward and keep Batum’s contract?
 
Look, I don’t like the Hornets and think they are a poorly run team, so I don’t necessary feel like defending them, but if I were inclined to sign Hayward to this contract, I would check to see if the Celtics were: (1) willing to take back Batum’s contract so I don’t have to eat/stretch it; (2) willing to give up a pick; or (3) willing to take a non-Batum bad contract.

Most people seem seem to agree that Rozier is a negative asset, given his contract. Since the Hornets are a poorly run team, they may not recognize that. Therefore they probably lack the awareness to try to dump him in a sign and trade. So you’re probably left with 1 and 2 above.

On the flip side, Ainge is a dick and will only make a trade if he can blatantly fleece the other team, so there will likely be no sign and trade. Instead, contrary to the best interests of both teams, the Hornets will outright sign Hayward and no S&T will be done, and both teams will be worse off.
 
The latter is clearly what is going to happen.
 
Fun to see the mid-80s play out in 2020. Jordan is trying to take a bunch of bums to the promised land. Ainge and more talented players are standing in the way. Pat Riley is just sitting back laughing.
 
Acknowledging MJ's stubbornness and Ainge's dickness that could easily prevent this from happening, the most likely scenario is a three team deal whereby the Hornets get Hayward, the Celtics get a bigass TPE, and a team like OKC gets Rozier. All 3 teams benefit significantly. The Hornets in particular would get Hayward and keep Batum's contract, such that next summer we'd still be ~$50 million under the cap after factoring Hayward's contract and all draft picks. That makes the Hayward signing a no fucking brainer from both a basketball and business perspective despite all the gnashing of teeth and claims of ineptitude. The roadblock is how big of a dick is Ainge going to be. You'd think after the Kemba S&T between the teams last summer, and the fact that he was working on a S&T with Indiana for Hayward, that he'll come to the table but who knows.
 
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