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Syracuse Game Time 12:30 pm, RSN

I think the staff handled Greene perfectly. If Sage and Scottie had gone down early in the year, then Clawson probably would've burned his shirt, but there was no reason to burn Greene's shirt as good as Sage and Scottie were playing. If Greene was here during Clawson's first couple of years, then he definitely would've burned his shirt because our other receivers were not good then.

Can you tell me that Claude is a better receiver than Greene? We can’t be sure he wouldn’t have made a difference but if it was based on best player and not who is a freshman, then Greene would have played more.
 
Green played in 2 of WF 4 losses. He couldn't played any better than he did against Cuse, and WF wasn't going to beat Clemson if Jerry Rice was playing receiver; reshirting Green up to that point wouldn't have changed the outcome of either of those games.

So that leaves the Louisville and VT games as the two games that WF lost when Green was redshirting as WF won every other game that Green did not play. Against L'ville, Surratt and Washington combined for 4 TDs and over 200 yards; WF scored 59. Don't think receiver was an issue in that game. It would've been nice to have Green against VT, but Surratt did score both of WF's touchdowns, and WF ended up losing handily as good as Green looked late in the year, don't think he could've changed the VT outcome. Maybe Green will be so awesome that he will leave before his eligibility runs out, but its reasonable to think WF would've finished 8-4 if Green had played every game or redshirted until the Clemson game.
 
Can you tell me that Claude is a better receiver than Greene? We can’t be sure he wouldn’t have made a difference but if it was based on best player and not who is a freshman, then Greene would have played more.

And with what we had in front of him up until the injuries it would’ve been stupid to waste a year of his eligibility.
 
I am not with you guys on Greene. Absolutely he is special, but he got muscled off a deep ball late in the 2nd quarter which was similar to him getting muscled off the ball late in the 2nd quarter against Clemson that directly resulted in an INT and return and game over TD. I do love the 4 game rule though. Greene has had just enough success and just enough failure to roll into the off season like Sage did last year. He now knows exactly how strong he has to be to fight off most really good CBs running down the sideline. Things Sage got infinitely better at from his redshirt frosh year (he didn't get to play his redshirt season as I recall) to this one. I expect us to have two hongry wideouts next year. The question will be the slot.

Greene is a basketball player who also plays football. He is adjusting to the physicality of the college game and will be fine as he gets stronger and gains experience. He knows he has to get stronger and tougher. Btw, James Brim had the same learning curve 35 years ago and ended up as first team All-ACC twice and pretty high up in the WF record books. Donavon isn’t as fast as Brim (he’s close) but he’s quicker, jumps much higher and has better hands.
 
Greene is a basketball player who also plays football. He is adjusting to the physicality of the college game and will be fine as he gets stronger and gains experience. He knows he has to get stronger and tougher. Btw, James Brim had the same learning curve 35 years ago and ended up as first team All-ACC twice and pretty high up in the WF record books. Donavon isn’t as fast as Brim (he’s close) but he’s quicker, jumps much higher and has better hands.

I agree. All I'm arguing is that he shouldn't have been playing against Utah State behind Scotty and Sage.

I also think in hindsight, we should have redshirted Shamar at DE. We had no idea how everyone other than Walker and Boogie were going to play and I think Shamar ran out of gas pretty quickly. I expect big things from him next year or the year after, but he will be a soph next year rather than a frosh. I know he got snaps in all 12 games, but I think he faded rather than gained momentum.

The whole redshirt rule works great for us.
 
I guess this is where we get into a philosophical discussion on how Wake Forest builds their program. Wake has prided itself on being a school that gives Freshmen the opportunity to redshirt their first year, this allows undersized players to get bigger and learn the system prior to having to play. When we have not redshirted players, its been more about need, I am thinking guys like Carney, Wofford and Hartman, who were thrust in due to lack of depth at the position. For the majority of Wake players, this redshirting is extremely helpful, because many of the recruits who come in are not ready to play at an ACC level. This 4 game redshirt rule is also helpful in allowing them to play and still be able to develop. We RS them now, so we get the most production we can later on.

HOWEVER, certain recruits do not need to redshirt to get up to the level to compete (lets say for example Sage and Bates and maybe Dortch) guys who we believe could have played their first year. If we wanted to the best players on the field that season regardless of seniority, these players may have made the depth charts. One issue we are running into though is that we are not getting the pay off of that seniority with players leaving early. Bates and Dortch both left after RS Sophmore seasons, and now potentially we could be looking at the same thing with Sage. If the point of RS is to get the most production out of these players, then in these instances we are missing out by not playing them as true freshmen. Watching Greene against Cuse, I saw a player that was fast and made tacklers miss. He looks like an ACC caliber WR right now. Even with our depth, he looks like the 4th best WR on the team. Could he have made a difference in the Louisville game? We can´t say, but I am for putting the bet players on the field regardless of seniority or potential production later on. Win as many games as you can that season, because you never know what will happen in the future.

tl;dr some dudes dont need to redshirt, and sometimes we miss out on production by redshirting studs
 
Donavon Greene happens to play the position where Wake has two NFL prospects ahead of him. At best he would have been third string until the injuries. No sense burning his redshirt for that.

Kenneth Walker is proof that Wake does what you suggested. He has played a lot because he was ready. He has ability to make people miss. He still needs to work on his blitz pickup recognition and pass blocking.

Greene came from a high school where his opponents weren't that much of a challenge. He easily beat his defenders on athletic ability. He needed to improve on route running. He has made rapid progress. It appears he needs a few more leg days in the weight room so he isn't easily ridden out of bounds by DB's. He came in as a 4* recruit. The last two games showed why. High ceiling. But still areas for improvement.

Clawson has said that he will play true freshmen if their position coach says they are likely to play a significant number of snaps. True freshman Kenneth Walker has. Donavon Greene wasn't better than Sage and Scooty, so he hasn't. Wake is loaded at wide receiver.

One thing I would think about doing with some freshmen is give them one game in the first four to see how they look and to give the kids a taste of just how hard college football is. That may help some of them better understand why they are redshirting and why and what they need to use the practice time and strength training for.
 
As I stated before, during Clawson's first couple of seasons, Greene probably wouldn't have shirted because we were bad at WR and had a need. This year, until Sage and Scotty both got hurt, we didn't and that is where the redshirt rule can really help. We got to use Greene when we really had the need, but still are able to preserve a year of eligibility. To speculate that he could've made a difference in the Louisville game where we put up 59 points and still lost is silly. We needed our special teams and defense to play better in that game, we got all the offensive production we should've needed.

The experience Greene has gotten this year should set him up for one heck of reshirt freshman year when we will really need him with Scotty at least gone and up to 3 years after that. If he blows up and leaves early in a couple of years then that is a great problem to have.
 
I think it is hard to fault the staff for redshirting Bates and Dortch. Bates had no Power 5 offers and was a bit of a revelation. I don't remember reports that he was the best defender on the field in practice during his redshirt year. I mean, he flipped from Kent State. Dortch, I DO remember rave reports during his redshirt season, but I do think he needed to get stronger. He still missed half his redshirt frosh year due to injury. I also think it was a mistake he went pro. Benefited Kendall, but not Dortch. If you leave early without a degree and the result is you aren't drafted even on the 3rd day, it was a mistake to go. Period. Now, he's already a journeyman practice squad player without a Wake degree. Not great.

I also think it is silly to fret over not playing Greene all 12 games and redshirting Sage. Sage was really really good last year, but not great. And that was a year in. He had 3 or 4 great games. I can't imagine he would have had the same impact his true frosh year. He got better his redshirt year and still had a good not great redshirt frosh year. He also worked his way up the depth chart past kids with a higher recruiting rating than him.

I think we have generally got things right. I just think that Clawson and staff were so enamored with how Shamar McCollum came in and was lighting off the line as he put on 15/20 pounds that they played him early on the assumption that one of Francis and Johns was going to struggle or be inconsistent. It turned out that both were really really good which could have allowed a 2 deep with Boogie, Johns, Francis, and Walker.
 
I think Greene is absolutely one of our top receivers now but that doesn't mean he was ahead of Claude, Jones, and Perry at the start of the year. The only thing I probably would have done differently would have been to play him against Virgina Tech rather than Clemson since he could have possibly made a difference that week. Of course the coaches had no idea Sage would also get hurt that week.
 
Green played in 2 of WF 4 losses. He couldn't played any better than he did against Cuse, and WF wasn't going to beat Clemson if Jerry Rice was playing receiver; reshirting Green up to that point wouldn't have changed the outcome of either of those games.

So that leaves the Louisville and VT games as the two games that WF lost when Green was redshirting as WF won every other game that Green did not play. Against L'ville, Surratt and Washington combined for 4 TDs and over 200 yards; WF scored 59. Don't think receiver was an issue in that game. It would've been nice to have Green against VT, but Surratt did score both of WF's touchdowns, and WF ended up losing handily as good as Green looked late in the year, don't think he could've changed the VT outcome. Maybe Green will be so awesome that he will leave before his eligibility runs out, but its reasonable to think WF would've finished 8-4 if Green had played every game or redshirted until the Clemson game.

For some reason this post reminds me that we could have had Alex Bachman on our team this year if had redshirted as a freshman when we didn't need him.
 
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