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Basham, Surratt, Hartman and Kern return

OldGoldBeard said:
It looks like Georgia offers 10 hours/month, or approximately three weeks/year of PTO for their employees of 5 years or less. At Wake, employees are offered 5 weeks PTO if they've been employed for less than five years. So, from a PTO perspective, it looks like he will be taking a definite step back.

And, yes, it is selfish to want Wake Forest to succeed. That's the nature of competition. My happiness comes at the expense of inflecting sadness on someone else, to wit, the coaches, players, and fans of an opposing team. It is particularly selfish when I'm pulling for a tiny school like Wake Forest that is competing against a much larger school that has a fanbase ten times the size of ours. Yet I will gladly and selfishly pull for Wake to win, even though that means many more people will come away disappointed.

If WF is really as low on the totem pole as the LOWF Losers believe (and it's not), then I will also hope for recruits and players to make decisions that will benefit, me, Wake Forest, and my selfish interest in having Wake Forest win football games. I will hope for highly-rated recruits like Greene and Groulx (and Whitter and Cross) to choose Wake over offers from "better" programs. I will hope for low-rated but overachieving recruits like Haynes and Bassey (and Newman) to stay at Wake rather than to transfer to "better" programs when they succeed. I will hope for pro prospects like Basham and Surratt (and Bates and Dortch) to stay at Wake for an extra year or two. All of these hopes are selfish, and all of them are necessary, or at least helpful, to growing our program.

That does not mean that if those players do not make the choices that I prefer, that it is reasonable or justified to blame them for it, much less to go ballistic like wfu22fan. I have condemned his behavior multiple times on this thread already. However, if you have a fanbase that values winning over sportsmanship, you should expect disappointment and some degree of backlash against a decision like this.
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FYI for full year staff roles, not counted against PTO is when the campus shuts down between semesters.. For the University System of Ga, depending upon which campus you were at and how the calendar fell, that adds between 1.5 to 2 weeks of time off in Dec and a day or two in the summer. Ga Tech was the only time in my career where I had the full week of Xmas and NYE off each year. Really didn't appreciate how cool that was when I was there.
 
Stan Gable said:
Stop talking out of your ass. There is no agreement that contributing players that are redshirted are not encouraged to honor the schools commitment to them. They can leave if graduated (per ncaa rules) but don't act like the school is not screwed over on their investment in them.
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Stan Gable said:
Why would you allow a guy that isn't playing and has graduated a scholarship for a 5th year?
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Can you see how this argument is intrinsically beneficial only to the "employer?" You are basically saying that we are going to redshirt you and give you 5 years to complete 4 years to graduate. If at the end of 4 years, you have not earned significant playing time, we are cutting your 5th year. However, if you DO develop and are playing at the end of year 4, have to commit yourself to your 5th and final year.

Doesn't seem fair when you say it like that, does it? And btw, if Newman had been somewhat lazy and was today, one semester shy of graduating - in other words, had he taken fewer classes during the Fall to focus more on football the last 4 years, he wouldn't have positioned himself to have graduated.

For every kid who has left for the draft or post grad year somewhere (Newman is really our first significant post grad transfer I believe), we have quietly told 4 or 5 guys that they can stay a 5th year as students to complete a degree if still short credits (I believe Wake pays for that), but they will not be using up one of the 85 scholarships. That's the reality. I think in our most recent graduating class, we have two OL who haven't become 2 or 3-deep players and are not coming back as scholarship players. It happens.
 
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OldGoldBeard said:
It looks like Georgia offers 10 hours/month, or approximately three weeks/year of PTO for their employees of 5 years or less. At Wake, employees are offered 5 weeks PTO if they've been employed for less than five years. So, from a PTO perspective, it looks like he will be taking a definite step back.

And, yes, it is selfish to want Wake Forest to succeed. That's the nature of competition. My happiness comes at the expense of inflecting sadness on someone else, to wit, the coaches, players, and fans of an opposing team. It is particularly selfish when I'm pulling for a tiny school like Wake Forest that is competing against a much larger school that has a fanbase ten times the size of ours. Yet I will gladly and selfishly pull for Wake to win, even though that means many more people will come away disappointed.

If WF is really as low on the totem pole as the LOWF Losers believe (and it's not), then I will also hope for recruits and players to make decisions that will benefit, me, Wake Forest, and my selfish interest in having Wake Forest win football games. I will hope for highly-rated recruits like Greene and Groulx (and Whitter and Cross) to choose Wake over offers from "better" programs. I will hope for low-rated but overachieving recruits like Haynes and Bassey (and Newman) to stay at Wake rather than to transfer to "better" programs when they succeed. I will hope for pro prospects like Basham and Surratt (and Bates and Dortch) to stay at Wake for an extra year or two. All of these hopes are selfish, and all of them are necessary, or at least helpful, to growing our program.

That does not mean that if those players do not make the choices that I prefer, that it is reasonable or justified to blame them for it, much less to go ballistic like wfu22fan. I have condemned his behavior multiple times on this thread already. However, if you have a fanbase that values winning over sportsmanship, you should expect disappointment and some degree of backlash against a decision like this.
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To show how crazy and dishonest OGB is, over a quarter of a century ago (and three Wake boards ago), I gave people about being LOWF and I haven't stopped. OGB knows this but is too dishonest to admit it.

YES, I made a boo boo in typing PTO instead of RPO, but you knew what I meant.....
 
Obviously Newman was free to transfer, and scholarships are only guaranteed on a year-by-year basis, but I think having the starting QB abandon the team to go play for a huge program is a crappy move. Have a little loyalty to the people that gave you a chance and helped develop your talent.
 
Ball State Deac said:
Obviously Newman was free to transfer, and scholarships are only guaranteed on a year-by-year basis, but I think having the starting QB abandon the team to go play for a huge program is a crappy move. Have a little loyalty to the people that gave you a chance and helped develop your talent.
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At the end of the day, it's pretty clear that Newman and co. feel like Wake, the coaches, WR's held him back from reaching his full potential. This is what bugs me the most.
 
Ball State Deac said:
Obviously Newman was free to transfer, and scholarships are only guaranteed on a year-by-year basis, but I think having the starting QB abandon the team to go play for a huge program is a crappy move. Have a little loyalty to the people that gave you a chance and helped develop your talent.
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Would you say the same thing about someone who believed the same about their job?

Even more than any other major, being a high level potential pro in a revenue sport, being in college is a job. The school makes millions of dollars from revenue sports. Shouldn't those who help make those millions have the right to decide for whom they do?

This is not about going to a "bigger" program. It's about someone choosing what he thinks is best for him and his family. Right or wrong, shouldn't everyone have that right?
 
Wake will be just fine with Hartman running the show for potentially the next 3 years.

Newman will also find out that it is easy to put up good numbers when throwing to Sage and Scotty.
 
I think we're fine with Hartman; but, we are very thin with only Kern having played any minutes in college. In the long term, I think Newman's transfer could be a positive for us. Maybe the coaches will see that we might need to upgrade the offense so that it meets the needs of qb's with pro potential and doesn't limit us from recruiting them. Also, I think that while the other guys will publicly support Jamie's decision, I can't help but think they feel a little slighted. Hopefully, this will motivate them to reach another level.
 
OldGoldBeard said:
It looks like Georgia offers 10 hours/month, or approximately three weeks/year of PTO for their employees of 5 years or less. At Wake, employees are offered 5 weeks PTO if they've been employed for less than five years. So, from a PTO perspective, it looks like he will be taking a definite step back.

And, yes, it is selfish to want Wake Forest to succeed. That's the nature of competition. My happiness comes at the expense of inflecting sadness on someone else, to wit, the coaches, players, and fans of an opposing team. It is particularly selfish when I'm pulling for a tiny school like Wake Forest that is competing against a much larger school that has a fanbase ten times the size of ours. Yet I will gladly and selfishly pull for Wake to win, even though that means many more people will come away disappointed.

If WF is really as low on the totem pole as the LOWF Losers believe (and it's not), then I will also hope for recruits and players to make decisions that will benefit, me, Wake Forest, and my selfish interest in having Wake Forest win football games. I will hope for highly-rated recruits like Greene and Groulx (and Whitter and Cross) to choose Wake over offers from "better" programs. I will hope for low-rated but overachieving recruits like Haynes and Bassey (and Newman) to stay at Wake rather than to transfer to "better" programs when they succeed. I will hope for pro prospects like Basham and Surratt (and Bates and Dortch) to stay at Wake for an extra year or two. All of these hopes are selfish, and all of them are necessary, or at least helpful, to growing our program.

That does not mean that if those players do not make the choices that I prefer, that it is reasonable or justified to blame them for it, much less to go ballistic like wfu22fan. I have condemned his behavior multiple times on this thread already. However, if you have a fanbase that values winning over sportsmanship, you should expect disappointment and some degree of backlash against a decision like this.
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Hey, bro, give it a rest. I’m not the only one who didn’t sign up for the Jamie Newman worship society.
 
Very few programs have much good QB depth anymore. OSU only had two grad transfer backups (couldn't win a job anywhere) behind Fields. Kentucky switched a WR to QB (who was actually good). Plenty more examples out there. Hell, Florida started a guy who literally hadn't started a game since JV football after Franks went down. Also worked out.
 
Everything is not about the individual. Football is a team sport. I assume that JN had a good relationship with his teammates at Wake. He was a key to their success as a team. Does the fact that the team enabled him to achieve personal success not carry some personal responsibility to the team? Whether we like it or not none of us succeed entirely on our own. We are dependent upon others and that dependence carries some weight of responsibility to the those people...not necessarily a legal responsibility but an unspoken responsibility of mutual commitment.
 
mebanedeac said:
Everything is not about the individual. Football is a team sport. I assume that JN had a good relationship with his teammates at Wake. He was a key to their success as a team. Does the fact that the team enabled him to achieve personal success not carry some personal responsibility to the team? Whether we like it or not none of us succeed entirely on our own. We are dependent upon others and that dependence carries some weight of responsibility to the those people...not necessarily a legal responsibility but an unspoken responsibility of mutual commitment.
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How about when a coach leaves?

How about when an employee leaves for what he/she considers a better opportunity?
 
RJKarl said:
Would you say the same thing about someone who believed the same about their job?

Even more than any other major, being a high level potential pro in a revenue sport, being in college is a job. The school makes millions of dollars from revenue sports. Shouldn't those who help make those millions have the right to decide for whom they do?

This is not about going to a "bigger" program. It's about someone choosing what he thinks is best for him and his family. Right or wrong, shouldn't everyone have that right?
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He certainly has the right to do it. But he is leaving one "job" for no additional compensation and no additional responsibilities. His exposure to pro scouts is virtually identical, especially this day and age. And on top of it, he is abandoning his teammates.
 
RJKarl said:
How about when a coach leaves?

How about when an employee leaves for what he/she considers a better opportunity?
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If a coach left when he was only allowed to coach one more year, and he received zero additional compensation for that year but left anyway, then yeah, it would also be a d-bag move.
 
Ball State Deac said:
He certainly has the right to do it. But he is leaving one "job" for no additional compensation and no additional responsibilities. His exposure to pro scouts is virtually identical, especially this day and age. And on top of it, he is abandoning his teammates.
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People leave for jobs they consider better for a myriad of reasons. Pay is one of them (that's assuming you don't think UGA/SEC don't give benefits greater than at Wake). As to "responsibilities", the reality is UGA could play for the NC next year and Wake has no shot. Just reality.

RE: the coach- that might work in a NC courtroom but not here. It's not about year. It's about an entire future that he thinks will be better.

As is the case in many "discussions" here (I'm not calling you out personally), too many people are making this totally personal and a character attack on Jamie. He might be right. He might be wrong, but the attacks are childish, boorish, classless and outrageous.

My bad, that's the go to move for many here.
 
RJKarl said:
People leave for jobs they consider better for a myriad of reasons. Pay is one of them (that's assuming you don't think UGA/SEC don't give benefits greater than at Wake). As to "responsibilities", the reality is UGA could play for the NC next year and Wake has no shot. Just reality.

RE: the coach- that might work in a NC courtroom but not here. It's not about year. It's about an entire future that he thinks will be better.

As is the case in many "discussions" here (I'm not calling you out personally), too many people are making this totally personal and a character attack on Jamie. He might be right. He might be wrong, but the attacks are childish, boorish, classless and outrageous.

My bad, that's the go to move for many here.
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I think this is a real d-bag move by Jaime. Especially if he didn't tell the staff before the bowl game. He certainly can do whatever he wants, but he and I clearly do not share the same values.
 
Let's assume he decided before the game. Could he have thought it would have been worse to let his teammates down by not playing?

Could Jamie and his family been trying to decide whether to go pro and gotten feedback that going to an SEC/Top 10 type school would help him?

He could have handled it better, but neither he nor his family have been through something like this. He certainly doesn't deserve to be reviled like he is by so many here.
 
I think people have been pretty kind to him here. In my view, the right thing to do is obvious. He did the opposite. Fine but I sure will not be rooting for his success.
 
Newman is going to get absolutely EMBARRASSED playing for UGA. I can't wait to watch the shit show unfold.
 
zqglass said:
Newman is going to get absolutely EMBARRASSED playing for UGA. I can't wait to watch the shit show unfold.
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Didn't you think he was an NFL caliber qb while he was here? I'm confused.
 
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