• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Wake Forest football 2020 outlook

jaybone

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
8,742
Reaction score
655
Location
Brooklyn, NY
I decided to start a new thread instead of continue posting on the Pinstripe Bowl thread.

In a nutshell, a lot of our fanatic fans (and I include myself) are frustrated with some of the conservative runs within the RPO that leave us 2nd and 9. And most of us are frustrated/down on the defense.

There are some outlier fans who are "warning" us that we have essentially hit our ceiling and we either shouldn't expect anything more out of Wake football or Clawson, or both.

I am of the opinion that Clawson has "finished" the reclamation project he started when he took the job. Like Bowling Green and Richmond and Fordham, he has turned around a program heading in the wrong direction by implementing a system. This system takes four years. Essentially getting to a place where 3rd and 4th year players are in the 2-deep and only supplanted by extraordinary underclassmen. This can be seen in wide receivers. The two 3-9 seasons, WR was essentially our strength with Hines, Wade, and Cortez Lewis only to be supplanted by younger players (and Bachman) who were just better than they were or pushed them to work harder (Bachman).

So now what? I take Clawson at his word that he is going to review the full season and come up with some changes. I do think we have too many throw away plays off the RPO, especially on 1st down. We are too predictable. I am of the opinion that our offense is not predicable, but Newman's reads are predictable. He is a more conservative QB than Hartman and that makes our offense more predictable. I do understand that he had three receivers he trusted and he lost two of those, but he really does have to be coaxed into taking chances. He often does so after a few good throws but not before.

I think Clawson was successful getting 7 or 8 games into the season before injuries started to really kill our depth. I think his new system of practicing and ramping players up worked. I expect he will stick with it. At least two of our three significant injuries were due to players trying to do something they probably shouldn't. Sage reaching wide for a possible fumble exposing his whole shoulder and Strnad trying to one arm tackle FSU's Cam Akers. Both "mistakes" proved season ending. These are the only two injuries I saw that could have been avoided. Hard to teach a competitor to pull back but DBs are now taught that to avoid 15 yard penalties and ditto for shots on the QB.

Next year, I expect Hartman to play in just about every game. I think he runs the RPO more aggressively. I would think his skillset will work well against everyone except Clemson/ND type talent. There is no denying Newman's talent and size. All this talk about him transferring is a bit laughable. Unless someone at OU is talking to his mother, it is silly. If anything, he would make the shortsighted decision to go pro to allow Hartman his time. Having gotten to the Pinstripe Bowl early and watching our QBs warmup, Hartman is Hollywood - he's Baker Maysfield if allowed. He can lead a program. He can probably annoy a coach, but he's an energizer bunny. Newman keeps his head down and is more a work horse. He'll make a perfect backup QB in the pros IMO - sort of like Jacoby Brissett with Colts. In warmups, Michael Kern has a better arm than both of them, and that is not a knock on Hartman or Newman. We are set at QB.

I digressed a little bit. I think Clawson will play Hartman and Newman in every game unless one is hurt. I think the differences they bring in running the RPO could keep defenses off balance.

I also expect us to rotate units in defensively more aggressively early in the season. Unless we decide to slow down on offense, our defense just absolutely needs more depth. From within. Clawson left Strnad out there for just about every play until he was hurt. I get it. He was our best linebacker by far. but that flew against the training metrics he used in camp. I think we should rotate guys the way teams do in the NFL. It means redshirt freshmen and sophmores need to play more. I also want us to move guys around on defense. I think offenses got better at being to design schemes against us because other than how we cover in the back, we sort of do the same thing in the front 7 all the time. I am no football sophisticate, and I understand we did well on 3rd downs and we blitzed some corners a play or two a game successfully, but I think our players are smart enough to move around and give a QB and coordinator different looks from series to series and maybe down to down. We look like the Dallas Cowboys out there on defense most of the time: 11 guys lined up about the same on every down ...

I don't think we'll get that top 25 ranking in the pre-season I hoped we'd have earned over the last 4 or 5 games (we didn't), but with Boogie and Sage coming back, we'll look pretty good on paper. The App State game will be huge, and I am psyched it is at home against another new coach. It will be a great game, I expect, and if we can win that one with a packed crowd, I think we will likely be ranked early ...

All that said, until Clawson starts winning some 4-star recruiting battles, I have to agree somewhat with our internal critics. While I enjoy watching 8-9 win teams that are well coached and hope we keep Clawson until he retires, 9 wins seems to be our ceiling without a bump in recruiting. The emergence of Donovan Greene at the end of the year, without even losing his redshirt speaks to what legit 4-star talent can do a team with really good coaching. There is nothing about our program I am more excited about than thinking of Greene and Sage training all off season together. Greene can learn a lot from Sage. Hoping Groulx emerges next year as well. He looked a bit lost on offense in the few plays I focused on him in the Pinstripe bowl.

We do need to win some 4-star talent recruiting battles on the defensive side. I don't know enough about recruiting to suggest how that can be done. I like our staff as recruiters. If we continue to run fast on offense, anybody recruited on defense is going to have a chance to be on the field for a lot of snaps. Our games essentially have 25% more snaps than the average college game. That is a lot of opportunity to get a sack, tackle, interception, etc....
 
Last edited:
Reposting this from another thread:

I agree with your two biggest issues, but I think Clawson has 3 issues to address (excluding injuries).

I think we have some very solid, fast, linebackers in the making with the freshmen trio of Chase Jones, Jaylen Hudson, and Zach Ranson. I think all of those guys are going to contribute to our program, and one of them is going to be an NFL football player. We have DJ Taylor returning, along with Ryan Smenda (who improved over the season), and Jaylen Hudson at mike. At buck we’ll have Ja’cquez Williams, Chase Jones, and Ranson. And at rover we will have Luke Masterson and Kenneth Dicks back from injury, and Traveon Redd returning. I feel like we’re in a good spot in terms of linebackers.

I feel the same way with d-line. Ja’corey Johns quietly had a very good redshirt freshman season. Shamar McCollum will continue to improve. We have Rondell Bothroyd, Sulaimon Kamara, Dion Bergan, Tyler Williams, a bunch of talented redshirt freshmen with some big time recruits being added.

The third issue I was talking about was our secondary. Really, the big position of (serious) concern on our football team has been, and will be our secondary. We do have Jasir Taylor coming back, but who’s going to be on the opposite side of the field? Somebody is going to have to play, and as far as I’ve seen, no one on our roster is ready for that yet. Maybe JJ Roberts can make an immediate impact? Isaiah Essissima improves and becomes a viable starter? I would definitely consider moving Coby Davis to corner. It’s where he played in high school, and as far as I am concerned, he has no future at safety. He just doesn’t have it.

At safety Nasir Greer was Nasir Greer. Hopefully he comes back stronger than ever. I thought Trey Rucker showed some potential. But man did he have a rough game against Michigan State. He didn’t look like he wanted to make plays, and he was swinging and missing on just about every tackle. He’s going to have to play better with as much experience as he had this season. Zion Keith needs to come back, I don’t know where he was, but he didn’t play against MState. Another thing I may consider is moving Taylor Morin to safety. That kid is smart, and would be able to pick up the system fast. If he doesn’t end up playing at slot, then he needs to move and play safety because he’s too good not to be on the field. He has instincts, he played safety more in high school than receiver. He could make an immediate impact, and push for a starting job. Definitely a radical option, but I don’t think it would be a inane one.

The defense is set at linebacker and defensive line. We have playmakers, and we have depth. Our secondary is weak. Clawson has talked about developing more depth being the next step at Wake Forest. Well at corner and safety need some depth. And I don’t know where we are going to find it with the players we currently have back there.

This was a rant, and I apologize for making you scroll.
 
Position outlooks:

QB - Slightly Improved - Somewhat contingent on OL play, but no reason to think Newman/Hartman won't continue their positive development
RB - Steady - Losing Carney hurts, but most think Walker will be the better RB. Will CBS transfer? Would really hurt depth. Delaney gone too.
WR - Steady - Greene should be as good or better than Washington (hopefully more consistent/less injury prone). Need a slot to step up to come close to Hinton's production.
TE - Steady - Losing Freudanthal will hurt some, mostly from a leadership standpoint, but Chapman made some nice plays this year, and hopefully a young TE will step up.
OL - Slightly/Significantly Worse - Losing 3 senior starters, including both tackles, will hurt. Mike Edwards medical DQ hurts as well. At least our guys stepping in have a decent amount of experience.

DL - Significantly Improved - Entire two deep back, other than Walker. Lots of young talent to develop. Boogie is a star.
LB - Steady - Losing Strnad will hurt bigly, but get DJ Taylor back and a lot of young talent with hopefully more speed.
S - Steady/Slightly Improved - Greer will be all conference, if healthy. Need someone to step up in the other slot.
CB - Significantly Worse - Losing two senior starters with no proven depth is not good.

Kicking - Steady - Dom was fine this year, but not as great as years past. Sciba is GOAT.
Returns/Coverage - Can't be any worse, right?
 
Yeah, offensive line is a huge concern -- really got to hope for something good from a newcomer. Elmonus redshirted, don't believe he played at all. I can't remember the deal with De'Vonte Gordon who was a 2018 recruit but is listed as a true frosh, sounds like he delayed his enrollment but don't recall anything about it. And I know I've read promising things about George Sell.

Regardless, I'm afraid we'll struggle. The Maginn, Tom, Nya interior got destroyed against Michigan State and those are the guys coming back and presumably starting. I didn't think Benzinger had a great year so may not see drop-off there if Nash takes over.
 
The third issue I was talking about was our secondary. Really, the big position of (serious) concern on our football team has been, and will be our secondary. We do have Jasir Taylor coming back, but who’s going to be on the opposite side of the field? Somebody is going to have to play, and as far as I’ve seen, no one on our roster is ready for that yet. Maybe JJ Roberts can make an immediate impact? Isaiah Essissima improves and becomes a viable starter? I would definitely consider moving Coby Davis to corner. It’s where he played in high school, and as far as I am concerned, he has no future at safety. He just doesn’t have it.

Redd, Rucker, and especially Davis really struggled. Rucker is the only one I have much hope for, due to age.

When Essissima hit the field on Amari's brief injury break, MSU went right at him in the air on an outside run. I didn't see much to get excited about, but at least he's young.


we had a little success bringing numbers on a few pass plays -- we're going to have to do a lot more of that or we're gonna get roasted all year

DL doesn't get pressure consistently enough to rush three or four as often as we do
 
I'm also curious about position changes on defense like SD mentioned. Davis back to corner seems like a no-brainer, he really struggled getting into the right positions at safety which in theory is easier at corner.
Morin at defensive back is an interesting idea, especially if there is confidence in Roberson and Isaac and Groulx can flex between WR slots. I posted this somewhere else, but Dicks also seems like a candidate who could switch positions given depth at Rover with Masterson, Redd and potentially Williams. Also I recall Woulard was impressing before his injury, so hopefully he can have a big role.
 
It will be interesting to see if the coaches can find some experienced talent to in the grad transfer market. I see the coaches have been looking at OL, RB and CB in the grad transfer portal.
 
DL doesn't get pressure consistently enough to rush three or four as often as we do

God, you could not be more right. I lost count of how many times we got roasted due to giving opposing QBs wayyyyyy too much time. Infuriating.
 
God, you could not be more right. I lost count of how many times we got roasted due to giving opposing QBs wayyyyyy too much time. Infuriating.

I do like Bothroyd and his absence was felt

he's my bet for the next DL guy to make a leap
 
The one thing I have always loved about college sports is that someone always takes a huge leap forward that wasn't expected, but also someone disappoints either thru no fault of their own (injury) or fault of their own.

This time last year, nobody would have predicted that Sage Surrat was in NFL 2nd round discussions and would have 1,000 yards receiving after 7 or 8 games. We were hoping he'd be maybe 3rd team all-ACC level and play more consistently. Hinton was a huge question mark with a big fat hopeful tag on it. Bothroyd was an absolute after thought. Tyler Williams was going to be in the man on the interior (and he was in fact, really really good once he got back from injury). Obviously, Walker was a likely redshirt and certainly wasn't expected to do anything.

I will be very curious to read how Groulx and Rucker do in Spring and Fall camps, as well as the continued emergence of Greene.

Why did Kamara not play BTW? He was expected to play in the Pinstripe Bowl and was there but not dressed in pads. He was missed. He's a big personality as well.
 
I was working and didn't get to watch the game at all. I didn't realize Groulx played. Just a handful of plays?
 
I was working and didn't get to watch the game at all. I didn't realize Groulx played. Just a handful of plays?

Groulx played very little. WF didn't rotate its receivers much.
 
He was in the series Greene scored on a fade into the corner. If he had made a stronger run to the opposite corner, he would have been open, but he hesitated as if unsure of which way to break and Newman went to Greene for the score.
 
Greene caught 13 balls for 250 yards this year and it was like it never happened eligibility wise. That is how to use the new redshirt rule. Fucking ditto X 2 for Sam.
 
Greene caught 13 balls for 250 yards this year and it was like it never happened eligibility wise. That is how to use the new redshirt rule. Fucking ditto X 2 for Sam.

Agreed. The one caveat is that redshirting is waste if the player leaves for the NFL after his third or fourth year (not saying Donovan will, just that there is a risk when redshirting a really talented player as you may just be limiting your opportunities before the kid moves on).
 
Agreed. The one caveat is that redshirting is waste if the player leaves for the NFL after his third or fourth year (not saying Donovan will, just that there is a risk when redshirting a really talented player as you may just be limiting your opportunities before the kid moves on).

I don't know if the ship has already sailed with Delaney but as I recall he spent his first year or two at Wake as a DB. I wonder if he would be interested in moving to safety. He is a tough guy and does a nice job on special team tackling. We need some people at the back other than Nassir that can hit.
 
Agreed. The one caveat is that redshirting is waste if the player leaves for the NFL after his third or fourth year (not saying Donovan will, just that there is a risk when redshirting a really talented player as you may just be limiting your opportunities before the kid moves on).

Sure. That's always been the risk. It happened with Dortch and it certainly will happen with Sage. Looking back, it would have been nice if we at least had true freshman Dortch back to return kicks and punts in 2016. Without checking, who were the primary PR and KR during Dortch's redshirt season?

The new rule mediates that risk by giving you four games you didn't have before. This was a tough position for Clawson because injuries and such meant we probably needed Greene for 6 games but it wasn't worth it to put him in until there were only 4 games left.
 
Last edited:
Position outlooks:

QB - Slightly Improved - Somewhat contingent on OL play, but no reason to think Newman/Hartman won't continue their positive development
RB - Steady - Losing Carney hurts, but most think Walker will be the better RB. Will CBS transfer? Would really hurt depth. Delaney gone too.
WR - Steady - Greene should be as good or better than Washington (hopefully more consistent/less injury prone). Need a slot to step up to come close to Hinton's production.
TE - Steady - Losing Freudanthal will hurt some, mostly from a leadership standpoint, but Chapman made some nice plays this year, and hopefully a young TE will step up.
OL - Slightly/Significantly Worse - Losing 3 senior starters, including both tackles, will hurt. Mike Edwards medical DQ hurts as well. At least our guys stepping in have a decent amount of experience.

DL - Significantly Improved - Entire two deep back, other than Walker. Lots of young talent to develop. Boogie is a star.
LB - Steady - Losing Strnad will hurt bigly, but get DJ Taylor back and a lot of young talent with hopefully more speed.
S - Steady/Slightly Improved - Greer will be all conference, if healthy. Need someone to step up in the other slot.
CB - Significantly Worse - Losing two senior starters with no proven depth is not good.

Kicking - Steady - Dom was fine this year, but not as great as years past. Sciba is GOAT.
Returns/Coverage - Can't be any worse, right?

Jack will be missed.

All of this assumes a healthy wake forest. And a healthy team this year wins 10+ games. But any team that loses both of its starting WRS and LBers is gonna fall off. That's what we saw.
 
Back
Top