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Non-Political Coronavirus Thread

what i want to know is how many microwaves, fridges, smart phones and big screen tvs we sold since "the great resignation" !
 
What is this argument about?

I had a similar conversation with a friend of mine the other day - and I don't know any of the answers... It seems indisputable that a certain number of people that used to be in the labor market are no longer in the labor market. There are too many stories of people that need to hire people and cannot find anyone to take the job for them all to be false. I have seen it first hand, second hand and third hand... What I don't understand is why - and how are those people living without working when they needed to work before? I don't pretend to know the answer. I'm not sure that anyone knows fully?

Either they're slinging crack rock or they got a wicked jump shot.
 
Either they're slinging crack rock or they got a wicked jump shot.

LOL. There’s definitely a sense of “those people can’t do anything except flip burgers so they must be scamming the government” in these arguments. Not saying that’s what 2&2 and scooter are doing but it’s probably what the people they’re listening to are doing.

For me it’s hard to understand how people can’t understand the impact of so many workers dying or being too sick to work or having the time and additional short term money to recalibrate their lives. They won’t accept any other explanation besides blaming the government.
 
Enough people probably scammed the PPP system for hundreds of thousands as well

This. There was hardly any documentation and verification required for PPP loans for gig workers. And from what I've read pretty much every sole proprietorship is getting 100% loan forgiveness. I'm certain that system was abused.

you think you had more gig economy workers scamming PPP than employers who just kept the cash?
 
I really don't know what's hard to understand about this. This isn't me defending Amazon, but you can basically walk into an Amazon warehouse and start at $15/hr and be making $18/hr in almost no time at all. But the second I see that Taco Bell is closed early because they can't fill a shift paying minimum wage it must be because people are abusing the system. So many free market capitalists with tenuous grasps on how markets work.
 
LOL. There’s definitely a sense of “those people can’t do anything except flip burgers so they must be scamming the government” in these arguments.

That's an old rhetorical trope that I tried to tease out of 2&2's "paid to stay home" comment and Knight's poor gin-drinker but it really never even raised to the level of argumentation because all I heard were claims (some basic warrants, but very little evidence).
 
LOL. There’s definitely a sense of “those people can’t do anything except flip burgers so they must be scamming the government” in these arguments. Not saying that’s what 2&2 and scooter are doing but it’s probably what the people they’re listening to are doing.

For me it’s hard to understand how people can’t understand the impact of so many workers dying or being too sick to work or having the time and additional short term money to recalibrate their lives. They won’t accept any other explanation besides blaming the government.

I can't speak for anyone else but don't put words in my mouth. I am not blaming the government or anyone else. My understanding is that most of the government aid that was propping people up is gone now and that is why I am perplexed. Some of the explanations you provide, I'm sure, explain some of the missing workers but common sense (which may be wrong in this case) tells me that they don't cover everything.

You mention new restaurants opening or people leaving for promotions or better jobs - why would that be any different now than other times? If anything, there has been a net loss in restaurants and restaurant jobs over the past two years - with places failing and closing, or reducing hours. At least that is what I have seen personally - and I live in an area with a healthy, growing economy.

I certainly get people leaving bad jobs to stay at home with kids - with schools going remote and daycares closing off and on, that had to create hardships for households with 2 working parents. Perhaps some of those people are making ends meet through off-the-books work, the barter economy, or simply living off of one income, who knows?

The official numbers I have seen say there are around 5 million fewer people in the workforce than there were pre-pandemic (as of late 2021). Those people have not taken better jobs or started a business - they are not working. I don't think it is crazy to wonder about that.
 
The reasons I’ve given would explain 5 million fewer people in the workforce. No idea how legit that estimate is though. The margin of error on job estimates seems to be huge like it’s actually somewhere between 3-7 million.

As far as what’s different now as opposed to two years ago with restaurants, that’s pretty simple too. The restaurants who keep losing workers have probably would have just closed in the before time. During this pandemic, they’ve been propped up by PPP loans.

I can’t think of any restaurant in my neighborhood that closed during the pandemic. However, several have opened in the last 18 months. New construction, taking over spaces from other businesses, taking over restaurants that closed before the pandemic. Right off hand, there’s probably a dozen new spots in my zip code of about 70,000 new people.
 
I think the arg there is that it isn't a scam when employers do it, because they're an organization.

There are plenty of super wealthy "employers" of one that got PPP loans -- like our friend who complained about paying an extra fifty cents for a burrito at Chipotle (in part because they raised wages of their workers and in part because they moved their headquarters to Denver because their CEO did not want to move).

 
The official numbers I have seen say there are around 5 million fewer people in the workforce than there were pre-pandemic (as of late 2021). Those people have not taken better jobs or started a business - they are not working. I don't think it is crazy to wonder about that.

There are 2 million fewer working age people compared to pre-pandemic. Combination of increased deaths, immigration dropping off a cliff, etc. Doesn't seem crazy to me that another 3 million left the workforce for dependent care, early retirement, deciding they can live on spouses income, illness, etc.
 
There are plenty of super wealthy "employers" of one that got PPP loans -- like our friend who complained about paying an extra fifty cents for a burrito at Chipotle (in part because they raised wages of their workers and in part because they moved their headquarters to Denver because their CEO did not want to move).


Remind me never to answer a reporters question ever on anything.
 
i mean maybe he's just making an observation rather than a complaint (at least in the piece quoted in the tweet). not sure he needed to be put on PPP blast, which might have little or nothing to do with anything. how do we know the $37k didn't help his farming business and wasn't just a 'scam' use
 
Economic growth last year (5.7% gdp increase) highest since 1984…1-5 million fewer workers…service economy essential rebounded…

Not a big surprise workers aren’t so easy to find…?


gdp-sectors-600.png


The graphic shows goods (green) and services (blue) percentage change of gdp relative to pre-pandemic (darker horizontal line).
 
There are 2 million fewer working age people compared to pre-pandemic. Combination of increased deaths, immigration dropping off a cliff, etc. Doesn't seem crazy to me that another 3 million left the workforce for dependent care, early retirement, deciding they can live on spouses income, illness, etc.

This. When daycare is expensive and wages are low, it is a pretty easy calculation to see that you could just stay home, save day care expenses (and other work expenses - gas, clothes, etc), and be in the same position as when you were working. Also, a lot of min wage workers were told at the time to "get a better job." And they did. Good for them. They found better paying jobs or filled positions at places that responded quickly to the economic landscape by raising wages. Those businesses slow to respond are left without a chair when the music stops. They need a dose of honesty because partisan strawmen will not solve their business problems.
 
i mean maybe he's just making an observation rather than a complaint (at least in the piece quoted in the tweet). not sure he needed to be put on PPP blast, which might have little or nothing to do with anything. how do we know the $37k didn't help his farming business and wasn't just a 'scam' use

The rest of the story continued with him walking out and refusing to pay the higher price for the burrito, so sounded like a complaint to me at the time (when this first popped up a week or two ago).
 
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