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Thread: Covid-19 - Treatments & Vaccines

  1. #3221
    Quote Originally Posted by WakeandBake View Post
    So a drug pill is not an invasion of the body but a vax shot is? Scared of needles?
    Wakebored is prochoice (in specific contexts)!
    Birds are real.

  2. #3222
    Quote Originally Posted by WakeandBake View Post
    To him it makes more sense for the patient to be the one who decides what medical care is received
    FIFY

  3. #3223
    Quote Originally Posted by WakeandBake View Post
    So a drug pill is not an invasion of the body but a vax shot is? Scared of needles?
    I don't think a pill should be mandated either.

  4. #3224

    Covid-19 - Treatments & Vaccines

    Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
    Personally, I am ok with dropping the mandates for vaccines if the anti-viral drug gets full approval, as long as it's covered by insurance or reasonably inexpensive.
    We also need a pretty big expansion and subsidizing of rapid tests for those anti-viral drugs to be effective from a community spread standpoint. They donít work unless you take them very early after developing symptoms and testing positive.

  5. #3225
    Quote Originally Posted by BeachBumDeac View Post
    We also need a pretty big expansion and subsidizing of rapid tests for those anti-viral drugs to be effective from a community spread standpoint. They donít work unless you take them very early after developing symptoms and testing positive.
    Your amendment is accepted.
    Birds are real.

  6. #3226
    Quote Originally Posted by WakeBored View Post
    I don't think a pill should be mandated either.
    do you feel the same way about the armed forces?

  7. #3227
    Quote Originally Posted by BeachBumDeac View Post
    We also need a pretty big expansion and subsidizing of rapid tests for those anti-viral drugs to be effective from a community spread standpoint. They donít work unless you take them very early after developing symptoms and testing positive.
    Seems problematic for an illness that most people never even know they have.

  8. #3228
    What if we just socialized the medical industry?

  9. #3229
    Antivirals for respiratory infections are pretty suspect. The Merck pill when fully analyzed dropped to like 30% effective, I wouldnít be all that surprised if the Pfizer pill also trends downward. This is also in the most controlled of trial where doses were given at the correct timing. You are talking within 3 days of symptoms, so wake up headache, feel stuffy the next day and you have just eliminated 48 hours, you need a test and the drugs within 24 hours, not real feasible with our current testing setup and lack of rapid test.

    Additionally, that would be for people that would even get tested, believe covid is real, etcÖ if you arenít getting vaccinated you probably are going to miss a 3 day window. Then comes the pill requirements, 30 pills in 5 days, and if you feel like youíre an AIDS patient itís because you kinda are, Pfizerís new pill works with an old HIV protease inhibitor. That one at least has better safety since they are proteases. I actually wouldnít touch Merckís pill because remember all the conspiracy that the vaccine could change your RNA and DNA, well this pill actually does have the unlikely but possible chance to do just that, meaning the mechanism and pathway does exist unlike the vaccines.

    Overall, the anti virals are better than nothing, doesnít hurt to have more treatments available, probably has some effect even if administered upon hospitalization, but this isnít going to be pick up a zpak to knock out an ear infection.

  10. #3230
    Quote Originally Posted by WakeandBake View Post
    I didnít realize that was Junebug, who is an attorney. He is arguing a position, not being reasonable.

    To him it makes more sense for the patient to go through the health care system and be treated for COVID than to take a vaccination (free to the patient) to minimize the severity of the illness and transmission.

    There you have it
    Bingo. Starts from the position most politically advantageous to his party and works his way backwards. Posters like this have no personal beliefs, they are just empty vessels filled with what plays best at that moment.

  11. #3231
    Quote Originally Posted by WakeBored View Post
    I don't think a pill should be mandated either.
    no, you argue against a mandate that requires VAX/frequent testing on the grounds it is too invasive for the patient, arguing for the patient to contract COVID (which they most certainly will) and choose if their little heart desires to go take some pills instead, or if they still can't accept being invaded by the antiviral pills they can take up a bed in the ICU that could have been used for a patient who suffered an aneurism or something.

    all of this for, I guess, freedom from adding another vaccination to the 25 they have had already.

    your argument that the antiviral is "just as good" as the vax is bullshit lawyer logic

  12. #3232
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    Junebug, are you against all vaccine mandates or just COVID mandates?

  13. #3233
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Junebug, are you against all vaccine mandates or just COVID mandates?
    He is for Measles etc because they are one time and 90%+ efficacy and COVID is not as effective and doesn't last a lifetime. He is using the abortion invasion of body argument or something as a buttress about forcing shots or some Jackie Chiles thing
    Last edited by WakeandBake; 12-02-2021 at 05:49 PM.

  14. #3234
    I have missed a lot of this conversation today...

    There are a number of sides to this story. Bored doesn't think that any mandates should be required, albeit we have had them for decades for other reasons. Essentially it is the unvaccinated that are the problem, not specifically because they are not getting the vaccine but because of the unnecessary overwhelming of hospitals when C-19 has high transmission rates. I don't think you can turn away people and "treat only vaccinated people", that goes against the Hippocratic Oath (IMO). you just can't turn away someone in need...i do understand if there are no beds the need of triage, etc..

    To be honest, what I would do and shocked that insurance companies have not done (fully, to my knowledge) is to refuse payment to pay for unvaccinated people if they are hospitalized due to C-19. not taking the vaccine is not a financial reason, it is free just about anywhere. The amount of good to have had the vaccine before contracting C-19 is astounding! the speed of recovery, the lessening of lingering effects, and the lessening of being bed-ridden in the hospital with various amounts of supportive care. this should be the responsibility of the patient to pay.

    I have read that it is moving in this direction (not sure if it has started) and it is the correct action.

  15. #3235
    Dickie Hemric
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    I donít disagree with some sort of significant financial burden related to the cost of any healthcare required/received being imposed upon almost all non-vaccinated folks at this point.

    My advice regarding the notion of preferentially depending on currently available (and anything likely to be available soon) therapeutics and foregoing vaccination isÖthatís not, by a good ways, best strategy.

    Get the vaccine.

    Itís fair and appropriate to require vaccination as a condition of employment, etc. people can choose not to work in healthcare, for the federal government, for large employers, etc. But really, everyone able should get vaccinated.

    Yes, it would be ideal if everyone could just understand the wisdom of getting vaccinated, but we donít live in an ideal world and the mandates generally significantly improve compliance with vaccination recommendations.
    I love mankind...itís people I canít stand!!

  16. #3236
    I doubt hospitals would be very excited about insurers denying coverage for the non-vaccinated.
    Letís get this done!

  17. #3237

  18. #3238
    Dickie Hemric
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobacco Road View Post
    I doubt hospitals would be very excited about insurers denying coverage for the non-vaccinated.
    Yep.

    Potentially more workable to significantly raise copayments and whatnot rather than categorically deny. And communicate this clearly to all parties. Itíd be a mess to sort out and deal with appeals, etc. But itís already pretty messy and the hope would be that a lot of folks unable to appreciate the wisdom of getting vaccinated to protect their (and others) health will act to save moneyÖ?!
    Last edited by ConnorEl; 12-02-2021 at 11:59 PM.
    I love mankind...itís people I canít stand!!

  19. #3239
    This feels like it fits.


  20. #3240
    Quote Originally Posted by ConnorEl View Post
    Yep.

    Potentially more workable to significantly raise copayments and whatnot rather than categorically deny. And communicate this clearly to all parties. Itíd be a mess to sort out and deal with appeals, etc. But itís already pretty messy and the hope would be that a lot of folks unable to appreciate the wisdom of getting vaccinated to protect their (and others) health will act to save moneyÖ?!
    I understand some companies are starting to charge the unvaxxed extra for their medical benefits - that makes sense to me.

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