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Thread: 2020 MLB Season Thread -- Rays v. Dodgers -- Small Payroll v. Large Payroll

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Anybody else watch ESPN's coverage of Korea Baseball Organization Opening Day last night? Karl Ravech and Eduardo Perez were on the call from their respective homes.
    https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ll-league-more

    It was interesting. No fans. Some mascots in the stands. No fist bumps just elbow bumps. There was a home run just inside the foul pole and Ravech and Perez weren't sure what happened because there was no crowd reaction and the hitter took his time before going around the bases.
    MLB is studying how the KBL implemented their start. Every player is tracked 100% of the time via their cell. Each player gets a message indicating the location of any person, within a certain distance, who has tested positive so that the players know the locations to avoid. Every player gets his temperature taken upon entering the park. Anyone with the slightest temp above normal is not allowed to enter and gets tested. All umps and non-playing personnel at the park wear masks 100% of the time. KBL has been operating for weeks (they played a pre-season), and no player has tested positive, but S. Korea has a far lower infection percentage and is light years ahead of the US in tracking. Apparently, KBL has said that they will shutdown the league for 3 weeks if a single player test positive. Will see what the MLB construct looks like.
    Last edited by Pilchard; 05-05-2020 at 01:54 PM.

  2. #62
    Bzzz is a fucking loser Arsene Wenger's Avatar
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    Iím watching the replay on ESPN2. Kind of digging it. Nice to see almost live sports again.

  3. #63
    The last season of Brockmire that just ended hits differently than I imagine the show intended. Still a superb show.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchard View Post
    MLB is studying how the KBL implemented their start. Every player is tracked 100% of the time via their cell. Each player gets a message indicating the location of any person, within a certain distance, who has tested positive so that the players know the locations to avoid. Every player gets his temperature taken upon entering the park. Anyone with the slightest temp above normal is not allowed to enter and gets tested. All umps and non-playing personnel at the park wear masks 100% of the time. KBL has been operating for weeks (they played a pre-season), and no player has tested positive, but S. Korea has a far lower infection percentage and is light years ahead of the US in tracking. Apparently, KBL has said that they will shutdown the league for 3 weeks if a single player test positive. Will see what the MLB construct looks like.
    It will be hard to see any league operating in a country that isn't aggressively testing and tracking everybody.

    palma posted on one of the coronavirus threads that MLB did antibody tests on all players and personnel and found only 1% had the antibodies.

  5. #65
    MLB players will vote down the owners proposal today when they vote. When things do pass, they want spring training to start in June, the season to start around July 4 and have it be in all the regular ball parks without fans. If local or state regulations are not going to allow as such, the teams will go to their minor league parks. Owners want a 50-50 revenue split & players have already agreed to 50% pay cut and that is all they are going to agree to!

  6. #66
    I hope neither side gets too dug in on money. It's a bad look with 20% unemployment due to pandemic.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by TheReff View Post
    MLB players will vote down the owners proposal today when they vote. When things do pass, they want spring training to start in June, the season to start around July 4 and have it be in all the regular ball parks without fans. If local or state regulations are not going to allow as such, the teams will go to their minor league parks. Owners want a 50-50 revenue split & players have already agreed to 50% pay cut and that is all they are going to agree to!
    I wonder what the blue jays will do. Is travel to Canada even allowed?

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by rjequalsmj View Post
    I wonder what the blue jays will do. Is travel to Canada even allowed?
    Apparently the Jays will play at their Spring training/FSL park in Dunedin if travel is an issue.

  9. #69
    Before (and if) they get started, Canada and the US will reach an agreement for private charter planes carrying only players and essential team staff to cross the board. It's not like there is nothing crossing between the US and Canadian borders right now, its just limited to essentials. On the list of hurdles that MLB has to find a way to jump over to actually start playing baseball games, getting clearance for one more plane to cross the US/Canadian border a week is way down the list.

    I'm getting increasingly pessimistic about baseball starting back up, among the issues:

    - Players and Owners have already dug in their heels on the compensation issue (which is ridiculous given that the country is closing in a 20% unemployment rate);
    - While it's a drop in the bucket, MLB will take a PR hit if the players are getting tested everyday (or every other day), while tests aren't generally available to the public:
    - There is no easy solution to the "what if a player tests positive issue"; if one team gets shutdown, the entire league has to shutdown; maybe a team could continue if a single player/team rep tests positive, but what if multiple players/team officials test positive (if the White House can't stay COVID Free; what are the odds that all 30 MLB teams will stay COVID free);
    - Too many cities in the Northeast and Midwest seem really far from opening up to the point where they could support an MLB game, even without fans; if the local governments are going to continue to ban gatherings of 10 or more; how can MLB play games that require at least 100+ people even with no fans? Imagine the backlash if a couple of TV technicians test positive because they are televising a Pirates/Marlins game.
    - Even all or most of those hurdles are cleared, what will MLB do if a significant segment of players from a team simply refuse to play because of their pre-existing conditions or the conditions of immediate family members? Are players going to agree to waive all MLB liability if they (or anyone in their families) get's the virus?

    Just seems like a lot to overcome with the clock-ticking as Memorial Day weekend starts a week from next Friday. The only sports that can reliably return are individual sports (golf, MMA, boxing wrestling, maybe tennis) as there is essentially no threat of an entire team having to shutdown. If a golfer or tennis player tests positive, he/she sits out, but if one team sits out, the whole system collapses.

    Think the analyses is the same for the NBA and the NHL (and the NHL would have far deeper crossing the US/Canada border issues)
    Last edited by Pilchard; 05-12-2020 at 03:43 PM.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchard View Post
    Before (and if) they get started, Canada and the US will reach an agreement for private charter planes carrying only players and essential team staff to cross the board. It's not like there is nothing crossing between the US and Canadian borders right now, its just limited to essentials. On the list of hurdles that MLB has to find a way to jump over to actually start playing baseball games, getting clearance for one more plane to cross the US/Canadian border a week is way down the list.

    I'm getting increasingly pessimistic about baseball starting back up, among the issues:

    - Players and Owners have already dug in their heels on the compensation issue (which is ridiculous given that the country is closing in a 20% unemployment rate);
    - While it's a drop in the bucket, MLB will take a PR hit if the players are getting tested everyday (or every other day), while tests aren't generally available to the public:
    - There is no easy solution to the "what if a player tests positive issue"; if one team gets shutdown, the entire league has to shutdown; maybe a team could continue if a single player/team rep tests positive, but what if multiple players/team officials test positive (if the White House can't stay COVID Free; what are the odds that all 30 MLB teams will stay COVID free);
    - Too many cities in the Northeast and Midwest seem really far from opening up to the point where they could support an MLB game, even without fans; if the local governments are going to continue to ban gatherings of 10 or more; how can MLB play games that require at least 100+ people even with no fans? Imagine the backlash if a couple of TV technicians test positive because they are televising a Pirates/Marlins game.
    - Even all or most of those hurdles are cleared, what will MLB do if a significant segment of players from a team simply refuse to play because of their pre-existing conditions or the conditions of immediate family members? Are players going to agree to waive all MLB liability if they (or anyone in their families) get's the virus?

    Just seems like a lot to overcome with the clock-ticking as Memorial Day weekend starts a week from next Friday. The only sports that can reliably return are individual sports (golf, MMA, boxing wrestling, maybe tennis) as there is essentially no threat of an entire team having to shutdown. If a golfer or tennis player tests positive, he/she sits out, but if one team sits out, the whole system collapses.

    Think the analyses is the same for the NBA and the NHL (and the NHL would have far deeper crossing the US/Canada border issues)
    Clock ticking close to Memorial Day is not really a problem because they are going to have a full month of spring training before they begin their games. Now where their spring training goes on is up in the air. West coast teams that have Cactus League in Arizona really don't want to go there for the month of June because it is too hot. They would rather go to their normal ball parks. The Grapefruit League guys could still go to Florida.

    Money will be the issue because the players have already agreed to take 50% in pay. However they do not want to agree to 50% pay of revenue sharing because in all the great years of booming attendance, concessions and parking fees, the owners got fat, dumb & happy off all of that and certainly were not forthcoming with any extra 50% revenue sharing of those profits. They took it all.

    Testing of these guys is not going to be a concern either on a PR basis. People want to see their sports get started. Anti-body testing is ramping up & just at BioReference Labs they are doing 400,000 of these per day plus 35,000 regular Covid tests a day. Fauci said today that by September the U.S. will be doing 40-50 million Covid tests per month. Labs are ramping up with newer tests at light speed.

    Just hope these guys will all get their deal done soon so we can have some baseball played by early July!

  11. #71
    OK:

    - The players have NOT agreed to a 50% pay cut. The players have agreed to be paid on a pro rata basis based on number of games actually played. So, if MLB starts and each team plays 100 games players get 100/162 of their salary. The issue is as follows: it looks like if games will be played at all, they played without fans which means no ticket revenue, no concession revenue, no parking revenue; so, the owners want the players to agree to a share of the total gross revenue, the owners proposal offers about 50% of the league gross revenues. The players, through the MLBPA head, have said that the owners previously agreed to pay the salaries on a pro rata basis and the players are not moving off that position. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ly-really-ugly

    - Testing is a huge PR concern (as it is for the NBA and NHL). "People want to see their sports get started" is a massive generalization and its meaningless without context. People also want universal access to COVID 19 tests. That is not reality right now. In most states, you still can only get tested if you have symptoms. MLB may propose something like that they will pay for free public test for each test that MLB uses (some of the Euro soccer leagues have gone that route). Even so, any sports league that starts up is going to face a PR battle about using COVID 19 resources that are not publicly available. That is reality.

    - Your numbers underscore your ignorance-- accepting the 400,000 tests per day. There are 330 million people in the US. It would take more than 2 years to test everyone just once at that rate, and a simple COVID 19 test is only valid for the date that it is given unless it is an antibody test. So, people will likely need to be tested multiple times to ensure they are continuing to be virus free. So, simply testing 400,000 or more per day does not scratch the surface of solving the testing problem.
    Last edited by Pilchard; 05-12-2020 at 05:46 PM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchard View Post
    OK:

    - The players have NOT agreed to a 50% pay cut. The players have agreed to be paid on a pro rata basis based on number of games actually played. So, if MLB starts and each team plays 100 games players get 100/162 of their salary. The issue is as follows: it looks like if games will be played at all, they played without fans which means no ticket revenue, no concession revenue, no parking revenue; so, the owners want the players to agree to a share of the total gross revenue, the owners proposal offers about 50% of the league gross revenues. The players, through the MLBPA head, have said that the owners previously agreed to pay the salaries on a pro rata basis and the players are not moving off that position. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ly-really-ugly

    - Testing is a huge PR concern (as it is for the NBA and NHL). "People want to see their sports get started" is a massive generalization and its meaningless without context. People also want universal access to COVID 19 tests. That is not reality right now. In most states, you still can only get tested if you have symptoms. MLB may propose something like that they will pay for free public test for each test that MLB uses (some of the Euro soccer leagues have gone that route). Even so, any sports league that starts up is going to face a PR battle about using COVID 19 resources that are not publicly available. That is reality.

    - Your numbers underscore your ignorance-- accepting the 400,000 tests per day. There are 330 million people in the US. It would take more than 2 years to test everyone just once at that rate, and a simple COVID 19 test is only valid for the date that it is given unless it is an antibody test. So, people will likely need to be tested multiple times to ensure they are continuing to be virus free. So, simply testing 400,000 or more per day does not scratch the surface of solving the testing problem.
    So much this. It's also inevitable that a player or someone else involved is going to test positive. A reasonable plan to address the fallout from just a single positive test is likely also going to be a sticking point.

    As for the argument over compensation, the "it's silly to argue over money during a pandemic-induced recession" plays in the owners' favor. There are billionaire owners pinching pennies about paying their employees, but the MLBPA will get the brunt of the blame when they dig in their heels. It's much more about protecting the 40th man on the roster rather than Trout or Harper.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchard View Post
    OK:

    - The players have NOT agreed to a 50% pay cut. The players have agreed to be paid on a pro rata basis based on number of games actually played. So, if MLB starts and each team plays 100 games players get 100/162 of their salary. The issue is as follows: it looks like if games will be played at all, they played without fans which means no ticket revenue, no concession revenue, no parking revenue; so, the owners want the players to agree to a share of the total gross revenue, the owners proposal offers about 50% of the league gross revenues. The players, through the MLBPA head, have said that the owners previously agreed to pay the salaries on a pro rata basis and the players are not moving off that position. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ly-really-ugly

    - Testing is a huge PR concern (as it is for the NBA and NHL). "People want to see their sports get started" is a massive generalization and its meaningless without context. People also want universal access to COVID 19 tests. That is not reality right now. In most states, you still can only get tested if you have symptoms. MLB may propose something like that they will pay for free public test for each test that MLB uses (some of the Euro soccer leagues have gone that route). Even so, any sports league that starts up is going to face a PR battle about using COVID 19 resources that are not publicly available. That is reality.

    - Your numbers underscore your ignorance-- accepting the 400,000 tests per day. There are 330 million people in the US. It would take more than 2 years to test everyone just once at that rate, and a simple COVID 19 test is only valid for the date that it is given unless it is an antibody test. So, people will likely need to be tested multiple times to ensure they are continuing to be virus free. So, simply testing 400,000 or more per day does not scratch the surface of solving the testing problem.
    And from what I've heard on Doctor Radio, no one is sure whether antibodies are good for a week, a month, a year, or longer.

  14. #74
    I love it when TheReff gets schooled.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchard View Post
    OK:

    - The players have NOT agreed to a 50% pay cut. The players have agreed to be paid on a pro rata basis based on number of games actually played. So, if MLB starts and each team plays 100 games players get 100/162 of their salary. The issue is as follows: it looks like if games will be played at all, they played without fans which means no ticket revenue, no concession revenue, no parking revenue; so, the owners want the players to agree to a share of the total gross revenue, the owners proposal offers about 50% of the league gross revenues. The players, through the MLBPA head, have said that the owners previously agreed to pay the salaries on a pro rata basis and the players are not moving off that position. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ly-really-ugly

    - Testing is a huge PR concern (as it is for the NBA and NHL). "People want to see their sports get started" is a massive generalization and its meaningless without context. People also want universal access to COVID 19 tests. That is not reality right now. In most states, you still can only get tested if you have symptoms. MLB may propose something like that they will pay for free public test for each test that MLB uses (some of the Euro soccer leagues have gone that route). Even so, any sports league that starts up is going to face a PR battle about using COVID 19 resources that are not publicly available. That is reality.

    - Your numbers underscore your ignorance-- accepting the 400,000 tests per day. There are 330 million people in the US. It would take more than 2 years to test everyone just once at that rate, and a simple COVID 19 test is only valid for the date that it is given unless it is an antibody test. So, people will likely need to be tested multiple times to ensure they are continuing to be virus free. So, simply testing 400,000 or more per day does not scratch the surface of solving the testing problem.
    Didn't say 400,000 tests per day was the end all be all. I said that was ONE company being able to do 400,000 antibody tests per day. There are dozens of companies like LabCorp, BioMedomics, Abbott Labs, et al. So there are literally millions being done a day. I suggest to you to not show your ignorance on the subject of testing. You have no clue what you are talking about here. MLB can get this done. People in the U.S do want their sports to start, PR as you say be damned. Testing is getting done from ones that need it. This had to ramp up because what we had was terribly outdated and the U.S. labs are working overtime to get new stuff out there. You can't just jump in with some willy-nilly test and say you have a good Covid test. Remember on Jan 26 renowned expert Dr Fauci says that Covid is not something to be worried about or frightened by.

    60% of MLB players are still on their rookie contracts right now. They do not want to take less money from the owners.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchard View Post
    OK:

    - The players have NOT agreed to a 50% pay cut. The players have agreed to be paid on a pro rata basis based on number of games actually played. So, if MLB starts and each team plays 100 games players get 100/162 of their salary. The issue is as follows: it looks like if games will be played at all, they played without fans which means no ticket revenue, no concession revenue, no parking revenue; so, the owners want the players to agree to a share of the total gross revenue, the owners proposal offers about 50% of the league gross revenues. The players, through the MLBPA head, have said that the owners previously agreed to pay the salaries on a pro rata basis and the players are not moving off that position. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ly-really-ugly

    - Testing is a huge PR concern (as it is for the NBA and NHL). "People want to see their sports get started" is a massive generalization and its meaningless without context. People also want universal access to COVID 19 tests. That is not reality right now. In most states, you still can only get tested if you have symptoms. MLB may propose something like that they will pay for free public test for each test that MLB uses (some of the Euro soccer leagues have gone that route). Even so, any sports league that starts up is going to face a PR battle about using COVID 19 resources that are not publicly available. That is reality.

    - Your numbers underscore your ignorance-- accepting the 400,000 tests per day. There are 330 million people in the US. It would take more than 2 years to test everyone just once at that rate, and a simple COVID 19 test is only valid for the date that it is given unless it is an antibody test. So, people will likely need to be tested multiple times to ensure they are continuing to be virus free. So, simply testing 400,000 or more per day does not scratch the surface of solving the testing problem.
    The 50% revenue won't work in baseball. Some owners also own the network that airs regional games. What an appropriate rate is took 5 years and multiple lawsuits in the O's & Nats situation. The rate didn't previously matter because the owner owned both, so who cares if the RSN gets more profit or the team gets more profit. On a revenue model it would matter.

  17. #77
    They better have a really good plan for a positive test. If it means shutting every team down for a period of time might as well not play at all. There's no way someone somewhere doesn't test positive here and there.

    Tough call on the salaries with no ticket sales. As far as the bad look/unemployment, so what. People will pissed regardless. Don't blame them. If I were out of work due to government shutdowns I'd be asking why baseball players (insert any sport here) are allowed to make their own individual decisions to risk working and me...or the concession workers...or parking attendants...or waiters...aren't.

  18. #78
    Prince Fielder about to be this season's highest paid player: https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/202...ct-2020-salary

  19. #79
    Sounds like if MLB moves forward, some players will opt out. Blake Snell said today that he is not playing if his salary ($7 million) is cut. While he may change his tune, he sounded definite. Figuring out how to deal with the players who elect to not play (do they get credit for service time for free agency, arbitration and pensions if they choose not to play given the risks?) is part of the on-going negotiations.

    If the MLBPA digs in its heels on the compensation issue, the question for the owners will be, which alternative will cause more pain: a shortened season without revenue from fans attending games, but paying players in accordance with their contract on a pro rata basis, or punting the season altogether.

    There is speculation that some MLB franchise may go under if the season is lost. Also, the key payout for every owner is that with only 30 teams, the value of the franchise have always increased over time to unable believe degree (MLB's least popular franchise the Marlins was bought for $1.2 billion in 2018; in 2012 the Dodgers sold for $2 billion; now, they have a value of $3.3 billion). Will losing a season, lead to the devaluation of each franchise? If the NFL, NBA and NHL find a way to complete their seasons and MLB does not, what would be the long term impact on baseball?

    For the players, are they willing to give up over a billion dollars in collective salary that they would receive even in a shortened season? Realize that is less than they expected going into this seaons, but its money that they aren't going to get back.

  20. #80
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    The idea of a major sports franchise going under seems really far fetched even under these circumstances. Any word which franchise? Devaluation? Maybe some, but going under? That just seems way out there.

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