sailordeac
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If he got his facts right, no one would recognize him. Falsehoods are essential to his brand.
No buyout. Fired for cause
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JuiceCrewAllStar
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Out of curiosity I've spent some time reading the various Kansas Jayhawks blogs.
A significant chunk of that fanbase seriously is hoping, wishing, and wanting for [Paint Touches] to return to the bench out there. Some of them even want him to replace Self.
General consensus is that he failed despite being "a great recruiter" (lol) because "Wake is a bad job," "toughest in all of College Athletics," and "a fanbase that... [sic] thinks it's equal to Duke and UNC. Despite being fourth fiddle in it's own state."
Those are all verbatim quotes. Damn... those guys are simpletons.
I think Danny is actually a very good big man coach and is a good recruiter as an assistant at a place like KU
Milhouse
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no ruling required
SC DEAC
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Agree, especially at Kansas where he also gets legend status. He sucks at every other aspect of coaching, particularly the leadership part of being a head coach, but he has a certain ability that is particularly useful at one university( not ours).
DeaconSig
Well-known member
He’s not a good recruiter. Wasn’t at KU. Wasn’t at Wake.
Manning has just had a pretty significant "qualifying life event" and should reach out to his insurance carrier right away. I expect that the protracted buy out negotiations had a lot to do with continuing health insurance coverage in during a pandemic. Currie is not heartless and no doubt wanted to give Manning a few extra weeks of coverage until the curve was flattened. Hopefully Manning can use some of that $15 mil to get into a nice and affordable Obamacare plan. I suspect he doesn't qualify for a subsidy though.
Yea I don’t get the good recruiter thing. Did y’all not see some of the guys he was putting out there on the floor for us? He’s a dud recruiter and coach.
KU, Duke, KY, UNC don't recruit as much as they select. At Wake, you have to recruit. I'm not sure Danny ever understood the difference.
OldGoldBeard
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April 7, 2010: Dino Gaudio "fired."
Wake Forest did not disclose Gaudio's salary or any other details of the contract, as is customary at the small, private school. But Wellman acknowledged that "there is a buyout clause in the contract and that will be honored, most definitely."
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/news/story?id=5064441
December 12, 2013: Jim Grobe "resigns."
Grobe himself announced it during a press conference. https://godeacs.com/news/2013/12/2/Wake_Forest_s_Jim_Grobe_Resigns.aspx
March 20, 2014: Jeff [Redacted] "resigns."
"During my year-end review with Ron, we discussed the overall status of the program which I believe is very positive," said [Redacted]. "The right players are in place who have the values that are important at Wake Forest. At the end of the discussion, I told Ron that I am resigning because there needs to be a positive environment for the players to realize their potential. I appreciate the opportunity that we have had at Wake Forest. I look forward to the future success of this program."
https://godeacs.com/news/2014/3/20/Jeff_Bzdelik_Resigns_as_Wake_Forest_Basketball_Coach.aspx
April 25, 2020: Danny Manning "relieved."
"After a comprehensive review of the men's basketball program, and with the support of President Hatch and University leadership, I have determined that it is time for a change in our head coaching position,'' said Currie. "We thank Coach Manning, Julie and Evan for their service to Wake Forest and for their commitment to our student-athletes and the Winston-Salem community over the past six years."
"I am very thankful for having had the opportunity to lead the Wake Forest men's basketball program," said Manning. "I am very proud of the numerous student-athletes I had the pleasure of coaching, especially the student-athletes who earned their degrees. I am particularly thankful for all of the hard work my staff has put in through the years. I am so grateful to the Wake Forest community, who have made Winston-Salem a special home for my family and I from the second we stepped on campus in 2014. I wish the program nothing but success going forward."
https://godeacs.com/news/2020/4/25/general-wake-forest-announces-head-mens-basketball-coach-transition.aspx
I'm not skilled enough at negotiating the financial statements to tell what impact, if any, the terms of those separations had on continuing payments, but it's clear that there's a stark difference. Now let's add what else has been reported.
November 28, 2018: Jeff Goomdan rpeorts, "Wake Forest athletic director Ron Wellman signed Danny Manning to a six-year extension that runs through 2024-25 nearly a year ago to the day. A source told me that the deal is fully guaranteed, meaning that Wake is on the hook for somewhere in the neighborhood of $18 million if it makes a move to let go of Manning. The first couple of years, and a 24-39 mark, were on the previous regime. But after a 19-14 record and an NCAA tourney bid in 2016-17, Wake went 11-20 last season and has started out 4-2 this year with a loss this past weekend to Houston Baptist."
https://watchstadium.com/bol-bols-progression-at-oregon-and-more-from-this-week-in-college-hoops-11-28-2018/
March 4, 2020: ACCSports.com reports "According to an @ACCSports source, Wake Forest and the agent for head coach Danny Manning have begun negotiations for a potential buyout."
March 10, 2020:
March 19, 2020: From the Quad mentions Clawson and Hoover, but no Manning.
https://godeacs.com/news/2020/3/19/general-from-the-quad-covid-19-update.aspx
https://accsports.com/acc-news/source-wake-forest-agent-for-danny-manning-start-buyout-negotiations/
April 14, 2020: Clawson announces pay cut. Manning conspicuous by absence.
https://godeacs.com/news/2020/4/14/football-coach-dave-clawson-volunteers-pay-cut-amid-covid-19-pandemic.aspx
April 17, 2020: Manning appears on Zoom as part of coaches' meeting with Currie. Village idiots react.
April 18, 2020: Conor O'Neill article: Currie discussed the athletics department's finances. But one topic he wouldn't comment on is the status of men's basketball coach Danny Manning.
The only official word from anybody close to the program is what Manning said last week — that he’s moving forward as the Deacons’ coach in putting together the roster and planning on being the coach next season, while Currie’s year-end review of his program is still ongoing.
https://www.journalnow.com/sports/college/wfu/state-of-the-department-wake-forest-ad-john-currie-discusses-some-matters-around-deacons-athletics/article_cfb4a1b2-e0de-5c5a-8f43-381826a20483.html
Interestingly, a very early quote of this article (four minutes after Conor's post) referenced:
This accords with my own memory, although the wording is no longer in the article. Several posters commented on how that could entail litigation or legal wrangling.
April 23, 2020:
April 25, 2020: Manning "relieved."
Reading between the lines, it seems like the following is true: 1. The two sides had been working on a separation for close to two months before yesterday's announcement.
2. Currie had no desire to bring Manning back and telegraphed that through repeatedly failing to mention him in press releases and communications in which a popular coach (e.g. Dave Clawson) would figure prominently.
3. At the same time, Manning was making an effort to extend offers and make media appearances.
If we want to wander a bit deeper into speculation, it seems that: 1. Negotiations began in February or early March but rather quickly hit an impasse.
2. Legal issues arose as the two sides attempted to resolve the situation, leading to Currie's inability to talk about the situation with Manning.
3. Manning's flurry of appearances were motivated by legal advice as he did everything possible to keep up appearances and make it apparent that he was fulfilling the legal obligations of his contract.
4. Manning refused to take a salary cut or to do anything else that might compromise his bargaining position.
The only real question remaining is why the two sides were negotiating so long and what the hold-up was. It seems obvious to me that the answer is money and the terms of the buyout and/or amount guaranteed under the contract. Perhaps there are other issues out there, but I can't imagine them holding up the process for so long. While it's hard for me to believe that Manning was fired for-cause and there will be no buy-out whatsoever, it does seem to me that the two sides could not agree over money and Currie pulled the trigger on a termination that Manning was not happy about.
Wake Forest did not disclose Gaudio's salary or any other details of the contract, as is customary at the small, private school. But Wellman acknowledged that "there is a buyout clause in the contract and that will be honored, most definitely."
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/news/story?id=5064441
December 12, 2013: Jim Grobe "resigns."
Grobe himself announced it during a press conference. https://godeacs.com/news/2013/12/2/Wake_Forest_s_Jim_Grobe_Resigns.aspx
March 20, 2014: Jeff [Redacted] "resigns."
"During my year-end review with Ron, we discussed the overall status of the program which I believe is very positive," said [Redacted]. "The right players are in place who have the values that are important at Wake Forest. At the end of the discussion, I told Ron that I am resigning because there needs to be a positive environment for the players to realize their potential. I appreciate the opportunity that we have had at Wake Forest. I look forward to the future success of this program."
https://godeacs.com/news/2014/3/20/Jeff_Bzdelik_Resigns_as_Wake_Forest_Basketball_Coach.aspx
April 25, 2020: Danny Manning "relieved."
"After a comprehensive review of the men's basketball program, and with the support of President Hatch and University leadership, I have determined that it is time for a change in our head coaching position,'' said Currie. "We thank Coach Manning, Julie and Evan for their service to Wake Forest and for their commitment to our student-athletes and the Winston-Salem community over the past six years."
"I am very thankful for having had the opportunity to lead the Wake Forest men's basketball program," said Manning. "I am very proud of the numerous student-athletes I had the pleasure of coaching, especially the student-athletes who earned their degrees. I am particularly thankful for all of the hard work my staff has put in through the years. I am so grateful to the Wake Forest community, who have made Winston-Salem a special home for my family and I from the second we stepped on campus in 2014. I wish the program nothing but success going forward."
https://godeacs.com/news/2020/4/25/general-wake-forest-announces-head-mens-basketball-coach-transition.aspx
I'm not skilled enough at negotiating the financial statements to tell what impact, if any, the terms of those separations had on continuing payments, but it's clear that there's a stark difference. Now let's add what else has been reported.
November 28, 2018: Jeff Goomdan rpeorts, "Wake Forest athletic director Ron Wellman signed Danny Manning to a six-year extension that runs through 2024-25 nearly a year ago to the day. A source told me that the deal is fully guaranteed, meaning that Wake is on the hook for somewhere in the neighborhood of $18 million if it makes a move to let go of Manning. The first couple of years, and a 24-39 mark, were on the previous regime. But after a 19-14 record and an NCAA tourney bid in 2016-17, Wake went 11-20 last season and has started out 4-2 this year with a loss this past weekend to Houston Baptist."
https://watchstadium.com/bol-bols-progression-at-oregon-and-more-from-this-week-in-college-hoops-11-28-2018/
March 4, 2020: ACCSports.com reports "According to an @ACCSports source, Wake Forest and the agent for head coach Danny Manning have begun negotiations for a potential buyout."
March 10, 2020:
March 19, 2020: From the Quad mentions Clawson and Hoover, but no Manning.
https://godeacs.com/news/2020/3/19/general-from-the-quad-covid-19-update.aspx
https://accsports.com/acc-news/source-wake-forest-agent-for-danny-manning-start-buyout-negotiations/
April 14, 2020: Clawson announces pay cut. Manning conspicuous by absence.
https://godeacs.com/news/2020/4/14/football-coach-dave-clawson-volunteers-pay-cut-amid-covid-19-pandemic.aspx
April 17, 2020: Manning appears on Zoom as part of coaches' meeting with Currie. Village idiots react.
April 18, 2020: Conor O'Neill article: Currie discussed the athletics department's finances. But one topic he wouldn't comment on is the status of men's basketball coach Danny Manning.
The only official word from anybody close to the program is what Manning said last week — that he’s moving forward as the Deacons’ coach in putting together the roster and planning on being the coach next season, while Currie’s year-end review of his program is still ongoing.
https://www.journalnow.com/sports/college/wfu/state-of-the-department-wake-forest-ad-john-currie-discusses-some-matters-around-deacons-athletics/article_cfb4a1b2-e0de-5c5a-8f43-381826a20483.html
Interestingly, a very early quote of this article (four minutes after Conor's post) referenced:
This accords with my own memory, although the wording is no longer in the article. Several posters commented on how that could entail litigation or legal wrangling.
April 23, 2020:
April 25, 2020: Manning "relieved."
Reading between the lines, it seems like the following is true: 1. The two sides had been working on a separation for close to two months before yesterday's announcement.
2. Currie had no desire to bring Manning back and telegraphed that through repeatedly failing to mention him in press releases and communications in which a popular coach (e.g. Dave Clawson) would figure prominently.
3. At the same time, Manning was making an effort to extend offers and make media appearances.
If we want to wander a bit deeper into speculation, it seems that: 1. Negotiations began in February or early March but rather quickly hit an impasse.
2. Legal issues arose as the two sides attempted to resolve the situation, leading to Currie's inability to talk about the situation with Manning.
3. Manning's flurry of appearances were motivated by legal advice as he did everything possible to keep up appearances and make it apparent that he was fulfilling the legal obligations of his contract.
4. Manning refused to take a salary cut or to do anything else that might compromise his bargaining position.
The only real question remaining is why the two sides were negotiating so long and what the hold-up was. It seems obvious to me that the answer is money and the terms of the buyout and/or amount guaranteed under the contract. Perhaps there are other issues out there, but I can't imagine them holding up the process for so long. While it's hard for me to believe that Manning was fired for-cause and there will be no buy-out whatsoever, it does seem to me that the two sides could not agree over money and Currie pulled the trigger on a termination that Manning was not happy about.
tigerswood
Well-known member
Yes, we do. He had Greg Schiano and Mike Leach teed up and ready to sign on the dotted line. He may end up successful, but Pruitt was a far worse hire and the AD was in far worse shape with all the turmoil Fulmer and his cronies created.
Wakeforest22890
Snowpom
Only for cause situation I could see that goes beyond ordinary provisions would be if there is a graduation rate clause in the contract. Now whether or not failing to meet that provision would constitute a material breach of the contract is a pretty fact specific question but beyond this I don’t see any way there’s a legitimate for cause termination. If for cause termination included failing to win there wouldn’t be all these buyout payments in college basketball
Maybe a little. It strikes me more of "what do we have to lose?". Lose the case - you owe the buyout. If the contract had a clause for attorneys' fees, that might be the only big downside. The bad publicity of getting sues seems an acceptable risk compared to another horrible season. If the season gets cut short, Manning could have argued he didn't get a fair chance for one last season.
deaconson
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Finally coming around I see. Even so take it to the tunnels.
Last edited:
wfumike02
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I’m not saying it’s all resolved. There is likely offset language in the contract if he gets another job. Wake could theoretically keep paying him for the time being (potentially not breaching based on contract language) and resolve down the line for liquidated damages when he takes another job. In the meantime, Currie can force his hand - if he wants his full contract he can sit at home and not coach; if he takes another job he’ll have to take less (again, depending on contract language).
Still, that doesn’t qualify as firing for cause.
Still, that doesn’t qualify as firing for cause.
Deaconblue
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This sounds plausible. And one of the things that Wake would put in a contract.
mebanedeac
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It think that's on target and Manning would not have a rebuttal.
CharlotteDeac1
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Would be hilarious is Chaundee, Manning apologist, set this in motion with his transfer
donaldross
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I will say I agree with OGB's assessment above as the likely timeline. My conclusion from all of this is exactly what my suspicion was all along: Currie is the anti-Wellman. He will take risks and aggressively get us to where we need to be--even if it means leaving carnage and potentially ruffling some feathers.
Great work John!
Great work John!
sailordeac
Well-known member
I hope that you are right about Currie. Feathers certainly need to be ruffled at Wake.