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2020 Election: Biden criticism thread

Thanks birdman, I recognized it came from a good place.

Electoralism is just such a self-defeating or self-limiting ideology. It's always been easier for me to tear down than to build up. Everybody is cynical about politics but to different ends, I think.

I was listening to a podcast yesterday about conspiracy theories, and I thought there was an apt description there: Conspiracy theories are coping mechanisms for the difficult to explain, the means of said coping is projecting a concept that there is someone, somewhere, in charge or in control of every situation. It's interesting to me to reframe that in terms of electoral politics. I think the 40% of nonvoters have a less self-defeating ideology in many ways than voters convinced of their self-importance. Voting is a naive if well-intentioned sense that your voice can be represented, that you're contributing to representative democracy and that your voice is going to be heard by somebody who will be able to control the direction of the country. A way to frame it culturally would be: it's more ideologically coherent to follow the X Files as your way of understanding government (as a dumb show written by dumb people) because of the doubt it casts on the reality of representative government and control in a postwar society than it is to follow West Wing (a smart show written by smart people) which posits that government is a meritocracy run by ideologues.

That concept, the idea that we're having all these weighty conversations about the election and the role of our rhetoric still boils down to one vote at the end of the day for each of us, and it's why I think I can shit on Biden all day every day, cast my vote for him, and focus my energy instead on local organizing and labor power. The opposite idea makes no sense, it places far too much power on a single vote or a single voice, it's sort of what we've known because of behavioral economics for a long time, that there is no rational or perfect consumer, but we still base all our fundamental theories on the idea that a market is made up of rational consumers.

Anyway I was on a long run yesterday listening to this podcast, thinking about this thread, trying to dodge people walking four wide wearing no masks on a city sidewalk, and I decided it's probably best, whether I can get my thoughts out on this or not, for me to just focus my energies on having good vibes generally. Wanna be a good vibes guy. Probably won't post much on politics board anymore, because the vibes are of questionable quality.
 
Thanks birdman, I recognized it came from a good place.

Electoralism is just such a self-defeating or self-limiting ideology. It's always been easier for me to tear down than to build up. Everybody is cynical about politics but to different ends, I think.

I was listening to a podcast yesterday about conspiracy theories, and I thought there was an apt description there: Conspiracy theories are coping mechanisms for the difficult to explain, the means of said coping is projecting a concept that there is someone, somewhere, in charge or in control of every situation. It's interesting to me to reframe that in terms of electoral politics. I think the 40% of nonvoters have a less self-defeating ideology in many ways than voters convinced of their self-importance. Voting is a naive if well-intentioned sense that your voice can be represented, that you're contributing to representative democracy and that your voice is going to be heard by somebody who will be able to control the direction of the country. A way to frame it culturally would be: it's more ideologically coherent to follow the X Files as your way of understanding government (as a dumb show written by dumb people) because of the doubt it casts on the reality of representative government and control in a postwar society than it is to follow West Wing (a smart show written by smart people) which posits that government is a meritocracy run by ideologues.

That concept, the idea that we're having all these weighty conversations about the election and the role of our rhetoric still boils down to one vote at the end of the day for each of us, and it's why I think I can shit on Biden all day every day, cast my vote for him, and focus my energy instead on local organizing and labor power. The opposite idea makes no sense, it places far too much power on a single vote or a single voice, it's sort of what we've known because of behavioral economics for a long time, that there is no rational or perfect consumer, but we still base all our fundamental theories on the idea that a market is made up of rational consumers.

Anyway I was on a long run yesterday listening to this podcast, thinking about this thread, trying to dodge people walking four wide wearing no masks on a city sidewalk, and I decided it's probably best, whether I can get my thoughts out on this or not, for me to just focus my energies on having good vibes generally. Wanna be a good vibes guy. Probably won't post much on politics board anymore, because the vibes are of questionable quality.

It's not about your one vote. You can have impact on others.
 
Birdman an honest question for you. If Bernie was the nominee and I was here bad-mouthing and endlessly criticizing him what would your take be right now?

I don't think I'd be having an heart attack over it like RJ is. I'd like to think I would would discuss the positive and negatives of his policy positions but I'd probably tell you to shut up and vote...so fair enough.

It's a pretty wild hypothetical though because Bernie has, to my knowledge, no record of groping women and no rape/assault accusations, and I don't think he exaggerated or embellished the story of his wife's death for sympathy points. So your criticisms would be, probably, largely policy based and campaign strategy based, which seems like good ground to argue about.

We should have just nominated a woman.
 
Yeah I’d acknowledge Bernie had shortcomings just like any other candidate and hope that you’d still be down to clown with Bernie on Election Day over whatever it is Donald is.

I’m not excited about Biden at all but I’m still gonna campaign and vote for him.
 
I don't think I'd be having an heart attack over it like RJ is. I'd like to think I would would discuss the positive and negatives of his policy positions but I'd probably tell you to shut up and vote...so fair enough.

It's a pretty wild hypothetical though because Bernie has, to my knowledge, no record of groping women and no rape/assault accusations, and I don't think he exaggerated or embellished the story of his wife's death for sympathy points. So your criticisms would be, probably, largely policy based and campaign strategy based, which seems like good ground to argue about.

We should have just nominated a woman.

I dispute your other characterizations about Biden, but this one simply isn't true.


https://globalfirefighters.blogspot.com/2009/03/biden-mva-response-i-cant-shake.html
 
I don't think I'd be having an heart attack over it like RJ is. I'd like to think I would would discuss the positive and negatives of his policy positions but I'd probably tell you to shut up and vote...so fair enough.

It's a pretty wild hypothetical though because Bernie has, to my knowledge, no record of groping women and no rape/assault accusations, and I don't think he exaggerated or embellished the story of his wife's death for sympathy points. So your criticisms would be, probably, largely policy based and campaign strategy based, which seems like good ground to argue about.

We should have just nominated a woman.

I love people thinking this crazily about me. If I had heart attacks like so many think I do, I'd have led to building several hospitals by now.

But this thread isn't anything about policies.

And Bernie Bros attack anyone who isn't 100% on board with Bernie without any discussions. It's their way or the highway.

You're right Bernie's campaign only discriminated against women and people of color in pay, promotions and positions of importance. That's a great policy to have done in 2016 for a party whose greatest strengths are with women and people of color. And you wonder why he didn't win this time. Hmmmmm.
 
Birdman an honest question for you. If Bernie was the nominee and I was here bad-mouthing and endlessly criticizing him what would your take be right now?

I'm not sure how being the nominee changes that scenario. Many of you spent the last 4.5 years bad-mouthing Bernie. You'll probably spend a few more. C'est la vie.
 
I'm not sure how being the nominee changes that scenario. Many of you spent the last 4.5 years bad-mouthing Bernie. You'll probably spend a few more. C'est la vie.

Yep, and attempts to tone-police usually end up being one-sided.
 
Yep, and attempts to tone-police usually end up being one-sided.

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say, but it would be ludicrous to imply that the tunnels Bernie critics have ever been "tone policed" here, considering the small handful of Bernie supporters. I have to assume you aren't implying that.
 
Yep, and attempts to tone-police usually end up being one-sided.

There's no Bernie Bros/Far Left tone policing. If you don't accept everything they say, without any discussion, without any possible differing methods to get the desired results regardless of how civil your tone, their knives and attacks come out and are relentless.
 
Thought Nazi!!! We must do as you say and how you say it.

You are no different than extreme RWers. Are you Reff's long lost child?

Nope, he is a great thinking American who gets "it". Loves the U.S. Constitution, loves to secure our borders and knows that Trump is 100% better than that Crook Hillary Clinton and is doing a much better job than Barack Obama ever thought about doing. Or what Joe Biden could ever think about doing IF he even knew where he was at any given time.
 
I love people thinking this crazily about me. If I had heart attacks like so many think I do, I'd have led to building several hospitals by now.

But this thread isn't anything about policies.

And Bernie Bros attack anyone who isn't 100% on board with Bernie without any discussions. It's their way or the highway.

You're right Bernie's campaign only discriminated against women and people of color in pay, promotions and positions of importance. That's a great policy to have done in 2016 for a party whose greatest strengths are with women and people of color. And you wonder why he didn't win this time. Hmmmmm.

And all Biden's campaign can do is deny Biden's sexually assaulting women who worked for him plus the countless groping and smelling of hair of others! This is going to be such an easy Trump win when they start debating...….
 
Nope, he is a great thinking American who gets "it". Loves the U.S. Constitution, loves to secure our borders and knows that Trump is 100% better than that Crook Hillary Clinton and is doing a much better job than Barack Obama ever thought about doing. Or what Joe Biden could ever think about doing IF he even knew where he was at any given time.

Hmmm...Obama started with about 10% unemployment form W and left with 4%. Trump started with 4% and is now at 14.7% and growing. DJIA -Obama started at 8000-left over 19,000 -up over 130%- Trump started at 19,000 not 24,000 up less than 30%...Obama started with W deficit of $1.4T left with his of about $400B. Trump took over with about $400B. It's now over $3T this year.

EVERY economic indicator is massively worse under Trump from Obama.
 
Nope, he is a great thinking American who gets "it". Loves the U.S. Constitution, loves to secure our borders and knows that Trump is 100% better than that Crook Hillary Clinton and is doing a much better job than Barack Obama ever thought about doing. Or what Joe Biden could ever think about doing IF he even knew where he was at any given time.

Back in the 90s, I taught HS. The Reff's comments sound an awfully lot like young teenagers talking about their favorite team or band.
 
Back in the 90s, I taught HS. The Reff's comments sound an awfully lot like young teenagers talking about their favorite team or band.

You shouldn't insult your students so deeply.

Man, I thought you were nice than that.
 
And now we're in the Trump Depression. Good job reff. I know this is all projection for you and I do pity you a little bit. But if you are ready to go out in public with your fellow rubes and cough on each other, I feel like that is your right as a 'merican.
 
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