Black on Jewish hatred

You're incredibly bright which is why I am confused by the disconnect.

I can only speak for myself, but I think explaining away Jackson's tweet by calling him an idiot is problematic because I don't believe for a second that Bubba from Johnston County would get the same excuse for the exact same language, nor should he. Rather, it would be evidence of systemic bigotry (which does exist). Second, and I'll preface this by acknowledging that it will be inarticulately explained, something does not sit right with me about dismissing the words and thoughts of a black man as the result of being an idiot. He might act foolish at times, but Jackson isn't mentally disabled. I think we should take his words just as seriously as anyone else's. And now we have multiple very powerful voices coming to his aid, and frankly I'm concerned. Anti-Semitic conspiracy theories aren't something to mess around with.

I'll add that Sage Steele correctly pointed out there was more outrage about what Brees said about the flag than there has been over this story. That's wrong.

I'm being flip. I've actually followed this story pretty closely (here, most recently: https://www.jewishtimes.com/109779/the-education-of-desean-jackson/news/), DeSean Jackson was always one of my favorite football players. I don't really know much about how he did academically at Berkley. I just generally think he was being an idiot. It doesn't seem to me like he's doubled down on his hateful speech, just was careless with something he shared online. Whether or not I'd extend that courtesy or benefit of the doubt to anyone that wasn't a public figure is probably on a case by case basis. I know people who don't consider themselves racists or bigots who say and express racist and bigoted things, and while it's likely not within the content of their hearts to be hateful, they are often times just being idiots.

There's an essay in that book They Can't Kill Us that describes black joy and the ways society polices it--I think it comes to a head a lot in sports. Not only are black athletes expected to be peak performers, they're supposed to stick to sports and be role models on and off the field, held to standards beyond their training or education or often times abilities. I think about that in the context of DeSean and his various touchdown celebrations, sometimes starting at the 20 yard line, and again I can't help but just smile at the expression of that joy, and about how the NFL especially tends to stifle that kind of expression of joy often. There are lots of ways they stifle expression more broadly as well. None of these are extenuating for DeSean, but they are things I reflected on when the story first came up, I'm sure if I'm being honest the first thing that came into my head was "shit, come on DeSean" because I like him as a player rather than thinking about how my friends who are Jewish could have been affected.

I responded the way I did in this thread because of the way it was started and the ways 2&2 and biff and catamount piled on.

wakelaw13 said:

You're incredibly bright which is why I am confused by the disconnect.

I can only speak for myself, but I think explaining away Jackson's tweet by calling him an idiot is problematic because I don't believe for a second that Bubba from Johnston County would get the same excuse for the exact same language, nor should he. Rather, it would be evidence of systemic bigotry (which does exist). Second, and I'll preface this by acknowledging that it will be inarticulately explained, something does not sit right with me about dismissing the words and thoughts of a black man as the result of being an idiot. He might act foolish at times, but Jackson isn't mentally disabled. I think we should take his words just as seriously as anyone else's. And now we have multiple very powerful voices coming to his aid, and frankly I'm concerned. Anti-Semitic conspiracy theories aren't something to mess around with.

I'll add that Sage Steele correctly pointed out there was more outrage about what Brees said about the flag than there has been over this story. That's wrong.

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What Brees said about the flag was a continuation of almost four years of controversy that springs up from over 400 years of white supremacy on this continent that has manifested itself in different forms of violence against Black people. On top of that Drew Brees is a powerful influential NFL star who has quite a bit more power over his life than people who protest against police brutality.

Desean Jackson made a one-off comment that may reflect decades of anti-Semitism among a small group of Black people. On top of that, Desean Jackson is a known player but hardly on the level of Brees and does not have his platform. He is certainly operating from a less powerful position with respect to Brees and the people he is criticizing.

Treating both comments as isolated incidents is wrong. Equating them and what they say about power in this country is wrong.

Drew Brees was wrong and totally ignorant. He didn't attempt to pass on the message of Hitler. So I agree, they can't really be equated.

For the record, I don't think "Black on Jewish hatred" is a bigger problem than white or any other group's anti-Semitic issues. I do think the topic is interesting in light of Jackson, Sephen Jackson, Nick Cannon, Ice Cube, and other comments. I'm happy to admit my ignorance that this was a thing before Jackson's tweet and the fallout.

“centerdeac” is definitely bkf right? His new iterations can only restrain themselves for so long. If so, this thread must be the crack in the dam before the crazy starts to spill out.

TownieDeac said:

I'm being flip. I've actually followed this story pretty closely (here, most recently: https://www.jewishtimes.com/109779/the-education-of-desean-jackson/news/), DeSean Jackson was always one of my favorite football players. I don't really know much about how he did academically at Berkley. I just generally think he was being an idiot. It doesn't seem to me like he's doubled down on his hateful speech, just was careless with something he shared online. Whether or not I'd extend that courtesy or benefit of the doubt to anyone that wasn't a public figure is probably on a case by case basis. I know people who don't consider themselves racists or bigots who say and express racist and bigoted things, and while it's likely not within the content of their hearts to be hateful, they are often times just being idiots.


There's an essay in that book They Can't Kill Us that describes black joy and the ways society polices it--I think it comes to a head a lot in sports. Not only are black athletes expected to be peak performers, they're supposed to stick to sports and be role models on and off the field, held to standards beyond their training or education or often times abilities. I think about that in the context of DeSean and his various touchdown celebrations, sometimes starting at the 20 yard line, and again I can't help but just smile at the expression of that joy, and about how the NFL especially tends to stifle that kind of expression of joy often. There are lots of ways they stifle expression more broadly as well. None of these are extenuating for DeSean, but they are things I reflected on when the story first came up, I'm sure if I'm being honest the first thing that came into my head was "shit, come on DeSean" because I like him as a player rather than thinking about how my friends who are Jewish could have been affected.

I responded the way I did in this thread because of the way it was started and the ways 2&2 and biff and catamount piled on.

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By something careless, let's be clear that he was trying to quote Hitler.

So Townie, we just trying to explain this as just being ignorant to the problematic history of Hitler?? Hitler.

Posting something careless is like damn bro, I FUCKING LOVE Welches grape juice.

Townie on here actually comparing celebrating touchdowns to quoting Hitler.

Fucking cheeze whiz wanna be Philly fuck.

I am legitimately curious the origins of the anti-Semitism that has taken hold of a small subsection of black celebrities, but I suspect that it is not much different than the anti-Semitism that seems to have taken hold in a small subsection of people from all walks of life (and has at a lot of different points in history). There is an interesting discussion to be had about that, not so much based on DeSean Jackson's comments but about the support he got for the comments (and the backlash against Kareem).

Is Brad drunk again?

BeachBumDeac said:

I am legitimately curious the origins of the anti-Semitism that has taken hold of a small subsection of black celebrities, but I suspect that it is not much different than the anti-Semitism that seems to have taken hold in a small subsection of people from all walks of life (and has at a lot of different points in history). There is an interesting discussion to be had about that, not so much based on DeSean Jackson's comments but about the support he got for the comments (and the backlash against Kareem).

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Dumb people are easily influenced, whether it be conspiracy theories about 5G causing COVID or Rothschild running the world. And because human are inherently tribal, conspiracy theories about “others” are particularly attractive.

I sometimes think that people (not you in particular) think the because people are famous, they are necessarily smart, and assign malice when the more realistic explanation is ignorance.

Catamount is like a less capable palma

I think if I had to do my response to this thread over again I’d just let Kareem speak for me

JuiceCrewAllStar said:

speaking personally, I had no exposure or understanding of Jewish culture growing up in North Carolina

I knew like three Jewish kids and all I really knew was that their mom made latkes for the class around the holidays


never had any context for anti-Semitism til I moved to Chicago and even still it feels like something a bit out of my grasp

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Had an identical discussion recently about this. I feel the exact same way.

I’m also not sure I grasp what Catamount is saying. Jackson is an idiot, Brees is an idiot, Bubba from eastern NC who is racist is an idiot. They’re all idiots.

Well, I mean, they did kill Jesus.

Wakeforest22890 said:

I’m also not sure I grasp what Catamount is saying. Jackson is an idiot, Brees is an idiot, Bubba from eastern NC who is racist is an idiot. They’re all idiots.

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Not going to try to figure out what catamount is saying.

My problem with dismissing this incident as "Jackson was just being an idiot" is that he got an uncomfortable amount of support after his post. If everyone had come out like Kareem did and criticize the anti-Semitism, then I think it could be just "he was being an idiot." But given the support he got, I think we have to grapple with the "why" of that support, instead of just the "why" of him posting it.

That’s exactly how I feel. The topic didn’t become interesting until we saw the support, followed by other anti-Semitic comments.

wakelaw13 said:

That’s exactly how I feel. The topic didn’t become interesting until we saw the support, followed by other anti-Semitic comments.

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Don't forget about the rationalizations - Always a plethora of rationalizations when it cuts against the narrative!!!

What are the odds a white celebrity would get away with calling another race "savages", "barbarians" or "closer to animals"?

wakelaw13 said:

Drew Brees was wrong and totally ignorant. He didn't attempt to pass on the message of Hitler. So I agree, they can't really be equated.

For the record, I don't think "Black on Jewish hatred" is a bigger problem than white or any other group's anti-Semitic issues. I do think the topic is interesting in light of Jackson, Sephen Jackson, Nick Cannon, Ice Cube, and other comments. I'm happy to admit my ignorance that this was a thing before Jackson's tweet and the fallout.

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It has been a huge thing for decades, especially in Brooklyn. Look up the Crown Heights riots and Yankel Rosenbaum. That shit went on for years, and is what gave Al Sharpton tenure as national idiot.