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BillBrasky Memorial Political Chat Thread

Unfortunately people in power are really good at looking the other way. Especially republicans.
 
 
But that's kind of what I'm saying. Conservatism isn't evil. While you may disagree with the ideology, and I certainly do much of the time, it's not inherently evil. Trumpism is evil. It is dangerous. So I can appreciate what the Lincoln Project is doing and have a policy debate with them at the same time.
 
I guess I think Bush-style war hawking and traditional conservative austerity is indeed evil

lesser of two evils? very likely, but nonetheless

and yeah, I'm good to have a policy/ideology debate too -- but my ideology is diametrically opposed to what traditional conservatives want, so when an organization that legitimizes those ideologies goes down, I think it's a good thing; I think having the Republican party in disarray is a good thing


Democrats suck too, but for different reasons and in different ways
 
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I see the Lincoln Project as a exit ramp from Trumpism and old conservatism. I’ve seen interviews where those guys realize where they’ve gone wrong in the past. They’re not going to be aligned with Bernie and AOC but they can help get people to the point where they understand the difference between good faith political actors on the left and fascists on the right.
 
PhDeac said:
Quite possible. But is that enough to end them?
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Most republicans didn't give two shits about the two dozen sexual assault allegations against Trump, so one would think this wouldn't end Project Lincoln, but Republicans are also generally soulless demon hypocrites, so they will decide that these allegations are important. But Lincoln is or should be dead with the left.
 
wakelaw13 said:
But that's kind of what I'm saying. Conservatism isn't evil. While you may disagree with the ideology, and I certainly do much of the time, it's not inherently evil. Trumpism is evil. It is dangerous. So I can appreciate what the Lincoln Project is doing and have a policy debate with them at the same time.
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Plenty of conservative policy preferences are inherently evil.
 
wakelaw13 said:
Do tell.
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Enhanced Interrogation - evil

War on Drugs - evil

Death penalty - evil

Anti-abortion - evil

Drilling for Oil in the Arctic National wildlife refuge - evil

Climate change denial - evil

Citizens united, “corporations are people, my friend” - evil

Etc. - evil
 
I don’t think these are examples of conservatism being evil, and some are not conservative at all. For example, the truly conservative position in the war on drugs would be to promote freedom of choice and stop spending taxpayer money to fight people using certain plants. I have issues with the death penalty and lean pro choice, but neither side is inherently evil. And Citizens United isn’t an example of conservatism, it’s a Supreme Court case that was correctly decided and calls for a constitutional amendment.
 
wakelaw13 said:
I don’t think these are examples of conservatism being evil, and some are not conservative at all. For example, the truly conservative position in the war on drugs would be to promote freedom of choice and stop spending taxpayer money to fight people using certain plants. I have issues with the death penalty and lean pro choice, but neither side is inherently evil. And Citizens United isn’t an example of conservatism, it’s a Supreme Court case that was correctly decided and calls for a constitutional amendment.
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Evil is a subjective concept so it’s easy for you dismiss the list as not evil. But all of these policies are embraced by the GOP and either designed to or incidentally hurt a lot of people, especially poor people.

Btw: I know citizens united in a SCOTUS decision but I quoted Romney on the citizens united reference to demonstrate that even “rational,” “principled” conservatives embrace the concept of buying elections.
 
Ok. Well trumpism is evil, and far more dangerous than prior Republican administrations, as seen by the effort to end democracy itself. It was the most important political battle of our lifetimes. And the Lincoln Project fought on the right side. So disliking them because of individual members’ views on specific policies is kind of missing the entire fucking point. It’s almost like complaining that the members of Seal Team 6 didn’t support Medicare for all after the Bin Laden raid. This wasn’t just politics as usual.
 
wakelaw13 said:
Ok. Well trumpism is evil, and far more dangerous than prior Republican administrations, as seen by the effort to end democracy itself. It was the most important political battle of our lifetimes. And the Lincoln Project fought on the right side. So disliking them because of individual members’ views on specific policies is kind of missing the entire fucking point. It’s almost like complaining that the members of Seal Team 6 didn’t support Medicare for all after the Bin Laden raid. This wasn’t just politics as usual.
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Republicanism has been trending towards Trumpism for at least a decade. Splitting hairs over which of their policies are evil is a bit silly. The whole movement has been on a march towards fascism since at least 2008, but really much longer. Most of these dudes in the Lincoln Project were complicit, if not active propagators, of the GOP’s march for many years before Trump came along. It’s honestly kind of lame that it took someone as bad as Trump for them to see the light and If the man had been less crass and rapey they’d probably still be right there with the party. I’m glad they saw the errors of their ways and dedicated money and effort to defeat Trump, but I don’t have to like them, and I definitely don’t trust them to be loyal allies in 2022 or 2024.
 
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