Political Chat Thread - All Topics & Rants Welcome

[deaconson]

Why does one buy roofies, Brasky? The only reason is to rape someone. Stop back-peddling. You know exactly the weight and meaning attached to that and are trying to slither away from it.

I appreciate the offer, but she married you. I’d prefer an attorney who is sufficiently competent.

Just catching up with this shit show... but I roofie myself hoping to be taken advantage of so its not really taking advantage of me.

Come to think of it its 530... "Bae! I'm starting to get drowsyyyyyyyyy!"

[DG3]

The conservative argument against zero sum economics flips really quick when the concepts of socialism and wealth tax come up. Suddenly wealth is a scarce commodity. As it turns out, not everyone in society can be an entrepreneur chasing a fortune.

Again, this is a sincere question. How has my gain of wealth resulted in a net loss for someone else?

Yes not everyone does become entrepreneurial or business owners. But they CAN. The world needs ditch diggers too...

[DG3]

Just catching up with this shit show... but I roofie myself hoping to be taken advantage of so its not really taking advantage of me.

Come to think of it its 530... "Bae! I'm starting to get drowsyyyyyyyyy!"

Seems like a weird excuse for rape, but live your dreams...

[TenaciousKory]

if wealth is just the accumulation/stockpiling of kapital, to whatever end;
and if there's not a zero-sum component to this accumulation;
then where is the extra kapital coming from?

and why is income disparity/economic inequality in this country not only growing, but accelerating?

[TenaciousKory]

and even if wealth accumulation isn't a zero sum game

who's pocketing the surplus-value of goods and labor
and who is given enough (labor cost) to remain in a state of employment?

[ConnorEl]

Glad it worked out for you, but this argument never made sense to me. That America is awesome because all you have to do is work hard and you will be fine. Of all the rich countries, America is pretty unique in that one bit of bad luck or bad health can completely screw you, regardless of how hard to you work.

Yep...and stupidly so.

[ConnorEl]

Not to speak for him, but I think the polling on M4A is particularly and uniquely difficult to poll, because it's very clear that people have no idea what it actually is. The name itself is super popular. Opinions on the policy itself are much less clear, and depending on how you frame the policies and possible trade offs, you can get pretty different answers.

Again, yep.

[TownieDeac]

Isnt 400 percent of the poverty line only like 50,000 dollars? 4,000 dollars in premiums?

Simply not affordable. There’s such a clear path from here to medical bankruptcy too.

[DG3]

if wealth is just the accumulation/stockpiling of kapital, to whatever end;
and if there's not a zero-sum component to this accumulation;
then where is the extra kapital coming from?

and why is income disparity/economic inequality in this country not only growing, but accelerating?

Kapital? Is this some neo-Marxist nuance?

But you still haven’t answered my basic question. Who has suffered a net loss due to my gain of wealth? Be very specific, please.

[MHBDemon]

What is neo-Marxist nuance?

[DG3]

and even if wealth accumulation isn't a zero sum game

who's pocketing the surplus-value of goods and labor
and who is given enough (labor cost) to remain in a state of employment?

The surplus value of goods goes to the person or people that incur 100% of the risk. If you’re doing non-skilled labor for a company and that company goes under, you’re out of a job. The owner is out of a job and is liable for all the debt.

Surely your argument will be, “BUT WITHOUT THE LABOR YOU DON’T HAVE THE PRODUCT!” Unskilled labor in infinitely replaceable. If you don’t want your skill to be replaceable, do what everyone on this board has done and learn one that isn’t as easily replaced.

Further, don’t come at me with the barrier to entry bullshit. If you have a smartphone and an instagram account, you can become an entrepreneur today (not that I suggest that, but it’s very possible.) You can monetize literally almost anything. I didn’t know this a decade ago either, but instead of allowing myself to drudge through life paycheck to paycheck, I read books and involved myself in organizations that let me meet and learn from people.

Now, where I differ potentially from the conservative though is that I don’t think people who aren’t successful are lazy. Learning how to start a business or how to learn a valuable skill isn’t something that happens to be gift wrapped for you on your pillow one night. It’s something that requires education. I would love to see and participate in programs to mentor teens and young adults on business ownership.

[DG3]

What is neo-Marxist nuance?

You can figure it out. I believe in you.

[WFcatamount22]

My balls itch

[Tobacco Road]

The surplus value of goods goes to the person or people that incur 100% of the risk. If you’re doing non-skilled labor for a company and that company goes under, you’re out of a job. The owner is out of a job and is liable for all the debt.

Except, that isn’t true.

I do appreciate your efforts to make yourself. We need to have it baked into the system to support that and then we are all better off.

[ConnorEl]

I mean it is absolutely insane that an 18 year old HS dropout with mental issues can walk into a Walmart and buy a weapon that can kill dozens of people in seconds.

BUT WE ARE AMERICA AND WE ARE GREAT, so why change anything? Especially our 2nd amendment.

The dominant interpretation of the second amendment is stupid and destructive.

[ConnorEl]

Right, but it's not like M4A is the only path to some of those right? I mean of course high quality care is popular, but you don't need M4A for that. Same with decoupling employment and insurance. And yes, making things cheap/free is always popular. But again depending on framing: "Do you support eliminating deductibles and premiums by raising taxes on the middle class?" My answer to this is a resounding yes, but I think it would not be super popular. And you can come up with things that aren't popular about single payer too.

I guess it just feels like leftists (to use your framing from earlier) take as a given that M4A is the most "left" health care policy, and therefore it must be the best. And I just don't get that level of certainty. It takes some stones to say we are going to ignore the way that many wealthy countries are managing successful health care systems, we got this.

For me, it's not at all clear the M4A would be a better solution than something that would get portrayed in some circles as incremental change, but would in reality be a big fucking deal that could make a huge difference in many lives. I also think that M4A would be much harder to pass, much harder to implement, and much riskier if we fuck it up. So while I'm happy to concede that it could really be the best policy, I totally understand why a national party or a presidential candidate wouldn't want to endorse it right now.

Yep

[DG3]

Except, that isn’t true.

I do appreciate your efforts to make yourself. We need to have it baked into the system to support that and then we are all better off.

Ok then who is responsible for the debt? Yes, the owner, in most cases, won’t have his/her personal property seized as collateral, but who paid for the operating costs of business, the infrastructure, the equipment, the property? Hint: it wasn’t the guy working on the production line.

If you incur the risk and the costs, you reap the benefits. The best part about it is that the same woman or man on the production line can leave one day, start an LLC, and open their own shop. If you don’t like the trajectory of your career, you can make your own. Look at Instagram models, they make money being hot.

There’s no lack of opportunity in the United States, just a lack of knowledge on how to take advantage of those opportunities. These resources exist, we just need to make them more accessible.

[ConnorEl]

Yeah that's all fair. I think the Biden plan is modeled after Healthy America, so I'm guessing something similar to this:



I assume they chose those numbers to hit some specific budget target, but I'd prefer to see them start higher up the income ladder.

Yep

If I’m understanding you, a big problem is that those not qualifying for subsidized plans can be stuck with what feels like unaffordable options.

[birdman]

Donald Trump is a piece of shit.

[ConnorEl]

For damn sure.