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BillBrasky Memorial Political Chat Thread

It's semantics and far be it from me to defend conservatism but "originalism" as a general concept is compatible with a "living breathing document" in many regards. It's for the same reason that originalists are able to rebut the "yeah but women couldn't vote and black people were slaves" argument about when the Founders wrote the Constitution: the argument is that whenever amendments are passed as well as the original Constitution, we should give "original" intent to the written words in the Constitution. Now I think the argument is complete horse shit, but with a little nuance I understand how originalists can believe the Constitution is still a living breathing document as far as amending is concerned.
 
So if the Constitution is a living breathing document because of amendments, the partisanship that makes amendments impossible is killing the Constitution by asphyxiation.
 
mako1331 said:
Voting straight ticket with the exception of Troxler. Voting for a pub, even for Ag Commissioner, hurts.
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deaconson said:
Not sure what this means but I'll leave this quite from their website right here...
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https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article245986900.html

"The highest profile part of the job — the one that non-farmers see, too — is being in charge of the N.C. State Fair. There’s no fair this year because of the coronavirus, but the annual event usually draws millions of people to Raleigh every October. It can be a way to bridge the rural and urban divide with crops, animals, carnival rides and fried food.

But there’s a vendor at the State Fair every year that has drawn complaints in recent years: the Sons of Confederate Veterans, who hand out free Confederate flag stickers to fair-goers.

Wadsworth said if she becomes agriculture commissioner, the group won’t be allowed at the fair anymore. Under Troxler, they will, he said."

Also this: https://www.facingsouth.org/2019/12...s-funding-political-candidates-north-carolina
 
Deacfan2009 said:
oof. really want to continue giving the "sons of confederate veterans" a voice at the state fair, huh?
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No, and it's obviously something that should be changed and indicative of a larger issue as a whole, but there are a ton of other factors and issues that go into the job of the ag commissioner than who gets booths at the state fair, and who I vote for is predicated on who I think will be better for the livelihoods of those I know who depend on agriculture as a primary job. On that, based off of what I know, have experienced, and hear from those that farm, there's no real choice in the matter.

But it's shitty and unacceptable to allow that at the state fair. There's absolutely no defense for it, and it makes me feel even shittier about casting a Pub vote than I normally would.
 
Bootstrap time, can’t help if you won’t help yourself!!!

 
Hell yes. I wish she was my rep.

 
TownieDeac said:
again, gonna be a big dick here but in my experience especially on teh politics board i don't see a lot of empathy for people outside this in-group of privilege

i relayed a story of a family member killing himself after rationing medical care from continued unemployment and drastic poverty and was met with "he should have voted democrat" as the subtextual response. i am closer to empathizing with the 40-60% of nonvoters who think nobody will improve their lives via govt than i am with either party in 2020. i think i get more radicalized with each passing month of do-nothingness from our leaders. i think the earth will be largely uninhabitable in either my son or his children's lifetime, which seems like a bigger deal than knight going "wow that's big gay." i guess you try and control the things you can control.

also i might be completely out of serotonin from lack of sleep
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After reading the NYT article about non-voters, and looking at the Demographics of non-voters, I realize I identify way more with that group and those demographics than with the Democratic Party. It’s demographically a much more representative picture of the American underclass than the Democratic Party is. It’s a strange feeling being torn between a background of political disengagement and our current liberal hyper awareness.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
After reading the NYT article about non-voters, and looking at the Demographics of non-voters, I realize I identify way more with that group and those demographics than with the Democratic Party. It’s demographically a much more representative picture of the American underclass than the Democratic Party is. It’s a strange feeling being torn between a background of political disengagement and our current liberal hyper awareness.
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I'm sort of with you on this. Although for the first time in a few election cycles its pretty damn clear who will inflict the most long term damage between the D and R running against each other for president. That being said I'm more than a little worried that a Democratic president and Congress will still find a way to do nothing truly important the next 2-4 years. Too much corporate money and limousine liberalism behind the Biden campaign right now. It will be up to him and his advisors to buck them and move left, which Is struggle to see happening.

There needs to be a true progressive movement (income inequality, healthcare, climate change, etc.) very soon or this country (and planet) is going to be a shell of itself by the time my son is 50.


I posted this in response to Townie's post in the Pit CT. As the son of two people who were raised in the sticks on farms, I can relate to the working class rural poor. I was lucky enough to not be raised in that environment, but I have many relatives who were and I don't think any them even voted until they got on board with Trump. As absurd as it is, due to his messaging they view him as the first real advocate for them from either party in a long time. The rural white poor could and should be a large voting block of the dominant liberal political party, but the elitist messaging of the Democratic Party has pushed them away.
 
mako1331 said:
No, and it's obviously something that should be changed and indicative of a larger issue as a whole, but there are a ton of other factors and issues that go into the job of the ag commissioner than who gets booths at the state fair, and who I vote for is predicated on who I think will be better for the livelihoods of those I know who depend on agriculture as a primary job. On that, based off of what I know, have experienced, and hear from those that farm, there's no real choice in the matter.

But it's shitty and unacceptable to allow that at the state fair. There's absolutely no defense for it, and it makes me feel even shittier about casting a Pub vote than I normally would.
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Honestly, I'd defend it. Free speech. Perhaps I don't know the full story, but I don't really see how you can justify excluding a specific political group from renting a booth at a state fair unless you exclude all political groups or unless they are calling for imminent violence at the fair. Instead of banning them, I think a better response to idiots handing out idiot paraphernalia and espousing idiot ideas is to rent the booth next to them and install a giant sign that says "IDIOTS -->". Then proceed to hand out literature and pamphlets explaining that the confederacy was a racist and treasonous organization.
 
BillBrasky said:
I'm sort of with you on this. Although for the first time in a few election cycles its pretty damn clear who will inflict the most long term damage between the D and R running against each other for president. That being said I'm more than a little worried that a Democratic president and Congress will still find a way to do nothing truly important the next 2-4 years. Too much corporate money and limousine liberalism behind the Biden campaign right now. It will be up to him and his advisors to buck them and move left, which Is struggle to see happening.

There needs to be a true progressive movement (income inequality, healthcare, climate change, etc.) very soon or this country (and planet) is going to be a shell of itself by the time my son is 50.


I posted this in response to Townie's post in the Pit CT. As the son of two people who were raised in the sticks on farms, I can relate to the working class rural poor. I was lucky enough to not be raised in that environment, but I have many relatives who were and I don't think any them even voted until they got on board with Trump. As absurd as it is, due to his messaging they view him as the first real advocate for them from either party in a long time. The rural white poor could and should be a large voting block of the dominant liberal political party, but the elitist messaging of the Democratic Party has pushed them away.
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Maybe. Most of my rural relatives are much more concerned about social issues (abortion, gay marriage, racial issues, immigration if you consider that at least somewhat social) than tax policy or the minimum wage. Some of those folks are voters, some aren't.

I'm all for the party pushing for a reduction in income equality through a variety of progressive solutions. And maybe doing that will bring out folks who don't vote regularly or vote for 'pubs. I just haven't seen that in my own anecdotal experience.
 
DeaconSig said:
Maybe. Most of my rural relatives are much more concerned about social issues (abortion, gay marriage, racial issues, immigration if you consider that at least somewhat social) than tax policy or the minimum wage. Some of those folks are voters, some aren't.

I'm all for the party pushing for a reduction in income equality through a variety of progressive solutions. And maybe doing that will bring out folks who don't vote regularly or vote for 'pubs. I just haven't seen that in my own anecdotal experience.
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You're right that many of them stubbornly focus on social issues and bigotry, but that is because they have no tangible alternatives. What does the neoliberalism and fiscal conservatism of today's Democratic Party offer them? The ACA was a nice first step but there's not much else to speak of.
 
BillBrasky said:
You're right that many of them stubbornly focus on social issues and bigotry, but that is because they have no tangible alternatives. What does the neoliberalism and fiscal conservatism of today's Democratic Party offer them? The ACA was a nice first step but there's not much else to speak of.
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And the ACA was opposed and demonized by a ton of rural folks with whom I have been in contact.

If you want to argue that we ban gay marriage and abortion and then push big on economic change, maybe folks would change sides (or get off the sidelines). But that doesn't seem like a winning approach either.
 
BillBrasky said:
I posted this in response to Townie's post in the Pit CT. As the son of two people who were raised in the sticks on farms, I can relate to the working class rural poor. I was lucky enough to not be raised in that environment, but I have many relatives who were and I don't think any them even voted until they got on board with Trump. As absurd as it is, due to his messaging they view him as the first real advocate for them from either party in a long time. The rural white poor could and should be a large voting block of the dominant liberal political party, but the elitist messaging of the Democratic Party has pushed them away.
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I totally agree with your sentiment, but it’s not completely fair to place all that responsibility on the Democratic Party. Since the introduction of slavery to America, it’s been the explicit purpose of conservatives to “poison the well” in regards to underclass/working class solidarity by stoking white racial/cultural animosity towards non-whites.

Normally I would just flat out say here that politicians aren’t to blame for racism, but eh...I think the Republican Party is directly responsible for a lot of fucking racism.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I totally agree with your sentiment, but it’s not completely fair to place all that responsibility on the Democratic Party. Since the introduction of slavery to America, it’s been the explicit purpose of conservatives to “poison the well” in regards to underclass/working class solidarity by stoking white racial/cultural animosity towards non-whites.

Normally I would just flat out say here that politicians aren’t to blame for racism, but eh...I think the Republican Party is directly responsible for a lot of fucking racism.
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And that animosity has “pushed” them away from Democrats.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I totally agree with your sentiment, but it’s not completely fair to place all that responsibility on the Democratic Party. Since the introduction of slavery to America, it’s been the explicit purpose of conservatives to “poison the well” in regards to underclass/working class solidarity by stoking white racial/cultural animosity towards non-whites.

Normally I would just flat out say here that politicians aren’t to blame for racism, but eh...I think the Republican Party is directly responsible for a lot of fucking racism.
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The conservative ruling class has pitted poor whites and poor blacks against each other since Jamestown

It’s not a new phenomenon.
 
Sorry MDMH, now that I re-read your post you basically posted what I said first.

I agree that the Republican Party is to blame, especially the current iteration of it, but I don't think the Democratic Party has helped. And I do think that Biden is doing a decent job of appealing to rural whites, particularly in the rust belt.

Trump lied to them and told them he was bringing back a bunch of dead skilled labor jobs, and since nobody else was promising them anything they went with him.
 
PhDeac said:
And that animosity has “pushed” them away from Democrats.
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Of course, but the effects reach further than just creating racist Republicans, the Republican Party counts on polarized American politics along cultural/racial lines. The omnipresence of anti-black racism in American culture and politics makes it extraordinarily difficult to organize a labor movement, to galvanize underclass solidarity.
 
I saw someone say that Democratic politicians are millionaires with nothing to lose and Republicans are billionaires with everything to lose.

Hearing some lib friends (and board posters) demonize AOC or Cori Bush and embrace Lincoln Project and Michael Bloomberg makes me want to utterly disengage. They don't want things to be changed or to improve so much as they just want to not have to think about who the President or their representatives are.
 
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