Let's clarify this list (based on our best guesses).
Things that are popular:
low or no premiums and deductibles
high quality care
zero cost at point of service
no medical bankruptcies
removing the link between employment and access to care
Things that aren't popular:
working with an insurance company on a medical charge
being forced to change doctors or hospitals
Right, but it's not like M4A is the only path to some of those right? I mean of course high quality care is popular, but you don't need M4A for that. Same with decoupling employment and insurance. And yes, making things cheap/free is always popular. But again depending on framing: "Do you support eliminating deductibles and premiums by raising taxes on the middle class?" My answer to this is a resounding yes, but I think it would not be super popular. And you can come up with things that aren't popular about single payer too.
I guess it just feels like leftists (to use your framing from earlier) take as a given that M4A is the most "left" health care policy, and therefore it must be the best. And I just don't get that level of certainty. It takes some stones to say we are going to ignore the way that many wealthy countries are managing successful health care systems, we got this.
For me, it's not at all clear the M4A would be a better solution than something that would get portrayed in some circles as incremental change, but would in reality be a big fucking deal that could make a huge difference in many lives. I also think that M4A would be much harder to pass, much harder to implement, and much riskier if we fuck it up. So while I'm happy to concede that it could really be the best policy, I totally understand why a national party or a presidential candidate wouldn't want to endorse it right now.
did you ever end up doing any work with OZs, MHB?
I think we traded posts or PMs about them when they were brand new
This is where I was leading you. Why would you be more concerned with getting rid of malcontents than addressing their concerns?
I also am curious why people make the proclamation that this is the greatest country and if you don't like it you can leave. Like this country has a lot of problems, most countries do, but this weird American exceptionalism is bullshit. It also seems to run through the people that would do best in some other country. Like super rich people, probably best off in this country, upper middle class people pretty much a wash here or elsewhere, then for the rural flag waving, America fuck yeah, USA USA USA crowd their lives would be so much better in another country.
I think our fundamental flaw as a nation is this BS notion that we our exceptional. Its prevents us from looking in the mirror, assessing the real problems we have, and correcting them.
Why change when we are the best?
Tens of thousands of people die every year because of gun violence that no decent country would ever allow. We would rather put fucking body armor on our school children than change.
Sounds like DG3 needs to read the 1619 project.
Do I want those folks around me and influencing elections? Fuck no, but they also have to same rights that I do as an American citizen. They should never be compelled to leave by any stretch, but if I can help facilitate that in a mutual manner, I’m game.
This is akin to my take on abortion. I’m pro choice. SHOCKER! Personally, I’m absolutely against abortion, but, I am in control of my own decisions and, generally, outcomes. I don’t need my morality to be governed to the masses.
You do realize that they still get to vote in national elections as American citizens even though they live abroad? You’d be spending $10000s to keep them from voting for city council and school board and mayor in cities where you don’t even live.
Right, but it's not like M4A is the only path to some of those right? I mean of course high quality care is popular, but you don't need M4A for that. Same with decoupling employment and insurance. And yes, making things cheap/free is always popular. But again depending on framing: "Do you support eliminating deductibles and premiums by raising taxes on the middle class?" My answer to this is a resounding yes, but I think it would not be super popular. And you can come up with things that aren't popular about single payer too.
I guess it just feels like leftists (to use your framing from earlier) take as a given that M4A is the most "left" health care policy, and therefore it must be the best. And I just don't get that level of certainty. It takes some stones to say we are going to ignore the way that many wealthy countries are managing successful health care systems, we got this.
For me, it's not at all clear the M4A would be a better solution than something that would get portrayed in some circles as incremental change, but would in reality be a big fucking deal that could make a huge difference in many lives. I also think that M4A would be much harder to pass, much harder to implement, and much riskier if we fuck it up. So while I'm happy to concede that it could really be the best policy, I totally understand why a national party or a presidential candidate wouldn't want to endorse it right now.