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Hatch retiring?

BillBrasky said:
#1, #2 and #5 are more of real estate/$$$ achievements than academic.

The more $$$ Hatch brings into Wake, the higher salary he could justify.
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The stated goals of the Wake Will $$$ included increased faculty support and scholarhip money.

Innovation Quarter provided the space for both the School of Engineering and the increased life sciences grad programs. Without adequate lab space, engineering and life sciences just can't be taught.
 
TownieDeac said:
UC Irvine has had a huge rise; no idea what to attribute it to. Seemed like there was a lot more movement up to the mid-2000s, and then a lot of schools started to strategize around not gaming the rankings anymore (dropping testing requirements, not disclosing faculty salaries, etc.).
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Russel Turner and winning basketball leading to more exposure?
 
Deacon923 said:
Do you think all the other top 30 or top 50 schools were keeping tuition level and not doing anything to try and rise in the rankings?
Wake is in an arms race with every other elite or wannabe elite private university in the country, as well as the top public schools. That tuition pays for the experience necessary to attract the very wealthy, elite students who can keep that ranking high with their high SAT scores, selectivity, etc.
I pulled data for WFU, Duke and Vandy on tuition and ranking in 2005 when Hatch was hired, and 2020. Tuition is inflation adjusted, and I used only tuition because they didn't report room and board in 2005.
WFU 2005 tuition $39,667 2020 54430 73% increase. Rank 27 then, 27 now.
Duke 2005 tuition $42,55 2020 58031 73% increase. Rank 5 then, 10 now.
Vandy 2005 tuition $41,663 2020 52070 80% increase. Rank 18 then, 17 now (although they have been as high as 14 recently).

I didn't cherry pick these, I picked the two most obvious (to me) comparisons. If someone has time you can look up the same data for Emory or any other school you fancy. Tuition data comes from the Chronicle of Higher Ed, you must sign up for a free account to get the historical data.

If the gripe is high tuition and stagnant ratings, that's a gripe about the entire US higher education system. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
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Assuming the dollar amounts are correct, your rates of increase are off:

Wake $54,430/$39,667 = 37% increase or 2.1% annually (WF increased 10% annually 1985 - 2005)
Duke 36% increase or 2.1% annually
Vandy 25% increase or 1.5% annually
 
thatguy2016 said:
Assuming the dollar amounts are correct, your rates of increase are off:

Wake $54,430/$39,667 = 37% increase or 2.1% annually (WF increased 10% annually 1985 - 2005)
Duke 36% increase or 2.1% annually
Vandy 25% increase or 1.5% annually
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thanks for the correction. As we like to say on the politics board, the point still stands!
 
DistrictDeacon said:
They don’t give out medals for treading water.
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Pretty hard to look at WFU in 2005 vs. 2020 and say the institution has just been treading water. Kind of like saying a 2020 Chevy truck is no better than a 2005 Chevy truck because it's still second in sales to the Ford, even though the 2020 truck is demonstrably improved in safety, technology, performance, etc. etc.

Maybe there were superstar college presidents available in or since 2005 who could have done better than Hatch and pushed Wake into the top 20 or top 10. If so, I guarantee you that in doing so, that person would have made changes to the institution that would have drawn howls of outrage on these here message boards.

All that said, since this is the Wake Forest Sports message board, I want to be clear that I think Hatch completely mishandled the athletic department for the last 10 years.
 
I would be more along the lines of Hatch being told that Wellman was taking care of athletics and Hatch didn't need to concern himself with that part of the university.
 
Deacon923 said:
Pretty hard to look at WFU in 2005 vs. 2020 and say the institution has just been treading water. Kind of like saying a 2020 Chevy truck is no better than a 2005 Chevy truck because it's still second in sales to the Ford, even though the 2020 truck is demonstrably improved in safety, technology, performance, etc. etc.

Maybe there were superstar college presidents available in or since 2005 who could have done better than Hatch and pushed Wake into the top 20 or top 10. If so, I guarantee you that in doing so, that person would have made changes to the institution that would have drawn howls of outrage on these here message boards.

All that said, since this is the Wake Forest Sports message board, I want to be clear that I think Hatch completely mishandled the athletic department for the last 10 years.
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And yet WFU still sits at #27, 15 years later.
 
NJDeac’22 said:
I certainly don't speak for all current students but I'm very happy to see him go. Between letting Trump use the Joel lot as parking for his super spreader rally while enforcing overly strict regulations on campus, taking years to buy out Manning while accepting an absurd salary, sending an email accepting the racist dean of admission's apology on behalf of black students, trying to kill Greek life, and a host of other issues I think we clearly need a president that isn't a self promoting hypocrite and actually cares about the student experience.
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The admissions director Martha Allman is not racist. That’s just bullshit. She was the KA sweetheart in 1978 and was in a photo with them on the steps behind Davis House. The confederate flag was included because Robert E Lee founded the KA fraternity. WF students need to get over that.
 
Under Hatch: Test optional. Redacted. Manning.

Past time for him to go.
 
There’s plenty of movement among public schools and outside the Top 50 or so. But there isn’t much room to move in the Top 25.
 
Also, we were recognized as an elite school in the recent admissions scandal and got our name in stories with pics of Lori Loughlin.
 
wfu22fan said:
The admissions director Martha Allman is not racist. That’s just bullshit. She was the KA sweetheart in 1978 and was in a photo with them on the steps behind Davis House. The confederate flag was included because Robert E Lee founded the KA fraternity. WF students need to get over that.
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There is soooo much wrong with this statement. I did not know these things about KA, but using it as argument for why it’s okay misses the problem on many levels.
 
Ph is right that there isn't much movement in the USNWR top 25. Big jumps happen but they are rare. WUSTL has moved way up over the years. When the first set of rankings came out in the early 80s, Penn wasn't in the top 25, but has been a mainstay ever since.

Hatch did fine. I have a few minor gripes with him but on balance I think he was a good choice to lead Wake. I hope the next pres (it will be a woman and/or person of color, I'm sure) will focus on the tuition crisis and making Wake more affordable for lower and middle-class students. So many friends and family members of mine don't even consider Wake these days because of the cost and because of the perception, right or wrong, that it is populated exclusively by the kids of Lori Loughlin types.
 
inspectah said:
Ph is right that there isn't much movement in the USNWR top 25. Big jumps happen but they are rare. WUSTL has moved way up over the years. When the first set of rankings came out in the early 80s, Penn wasn't in the top 25, but has been a mainstay ever since.

Hatch did fine. I have a few minor gripes with him but on balance I think he was a good choice to lead Wake. I hope the next pres (it will be a woman and/or person of color, I'm sure) will focus on the tuition crisis and making Wake more affordable for lower and middle-class students. So many friends and family members of mine don't even consider Wake these days because of the cost and because of the perception, right or wrong, that it is populated exclusively by the kids of Lori Loughlin types.
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The cost issue is partly a function of the small endowment. Wake doesn't have the resources to provide scholarship funds to reduce cost of attendance as much as it should. Full cost college should only be paid by multi-millionaire families. Others should be provided with net price reduction via grants and scholarships, commensurate with family income level.

Right now Wake annual cost is equivalent to the price of a high end SUV. Once upon a time, it was less than the cost of a low end economy car. Net price needs to get back there again.
 
They could also reduce cost of attendance by not charging so much and having to rely on THE ENDOWMENT to game the true cost to something more palatable.
 
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