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Not all Sam's fault

BudatWake said:
Great point Connor. Not much love for the Beef Boys
Maybe try some misdirection. There are places to run besides up the middle. We have not been very imaginative in our play calling.
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Creativity has never been a strength of the Clawson/Ruggiero offense. They go with what works, and it normally does vs below .500 teams. Hell, I am over the moon that they have actually attempted some swing passes to the RB's this year. The direct snap to Morin on 4th down - LOVED THAT! This offense has never been about getting your playmakers in space. The run plays are designed to go up the gut, but CBS and Walker are so good, that they can bounce those outside and beat defenders around the corner.
 
No doubt the offensive execution and playcalling was a problem in the 2nd half.

But there is a gap the width of the grand canyon between "a problem" (2nd half offense) and "the problem" (our dogshit defense which was expected to be a strength of this team).

And yes, I'm aware injuries and COVID have decimated the already thin secondary but our LB's still look like keystone kops when dropping into pass coverage and this has nothing to do with missing Greer, Masterson, or CB depth.
 
Resilient Deac said:
We win comfortably if we had Greer and Masterson. You can't rely on Nick Anderson and Trey Rucker to keep that UNC offense from scoring. This isn't on the coaches and it's DEFINITELY not on Sam. It's 100% on the fact we are missing 5 defensive backs. Also, Groulx isn't ready for primetime and it would've been nice to have AT available. I'd rather not have Boogie and Smenda than the injuries we had.
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Just the factor of being able to keep the back end guys fresh too. Greer is a difference maker when healthy we know that. Having those guys wouldn't have been the difference in UNC scoring 24 instead of 59, but having those guys could've definitely made the difference in winning and losing. It's not the fault of Anderson, that kid has done so much more back there than could be expected it's incredible. Like it or not, UNC is one the top 5 offenses in the country and our think secondary got exposed Saturday. The offense needed to keep pouring it on to win that game and they didn't do it. The defense had a stretch where they stopped UNC on about 3 straight possessions, that's about all you could realistically ask. One scoring drive from the offense on one of the 4 straight possessions we did nothing would've won us the game.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
Just the factor of being able to keep the back end guys fresh too. Greer is a difference maker when healthy we know that. Having those guys wouldn't have been the difference in UNC scoring 24 instead of 59, but having those guys could've definitely made the difference in winning and losing. It's not the fault of Anderson, that kid has done so much more back there than could be expected it's incredible. Like it or not, UNC is one the top 5 offenses in the country and our think secondary got exposed Saturday. The offense needed to keep pouring it on to win that game and they didn't do it. The defense had a stretch where they stopped UNC on about 3 straight possessions, that's about all you could realistically ask. One scoring drive from the offense on one of the 4 straight possessions we did nothing would've won us the game.
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That's why Groulx's dropped pass on 3rd down was so costly. If we had kept that drive going and turned it into points, we would have taken back some of the momentum and maybe have held on to win.
 
I'd be interested in seeing how many games Wake has lost in the past 5 years despite scoring 30 points.
 
Buttermaker said:
I'd be interested in seeing how many games Wake has lost in the past 5 years despite scoring 30 points.
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2020:
59-53 @ UNC
45-42 @ State

2019:
39-30 @ Cuse (OT)
62-59 v. Louisville

2018:
41-34 v. BC

2017:
48-37 @ ND

2016:
none
 
Buttermaker said:
I'd be interested in seeing how many games Wake has lost in the past 5 years despite scoring 30 points.
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I counted 5. And that's including the 2 this year. It coincides with 2 things- 1) the defense losing Elko as coordinator, all five of those losses have happened since he left. 2) The offensive becoming much more explosive after 2016. Prior to 2017, our offense scored over 30 only 4 times under Clawson, and two of those were against Delaware and Elon. Since then, we have scored over 30 points 26 times.
 
LilburnDeac said:
That's why Groulx's dropped pass on 3rd down was so costly. If we had kept that drive going and turned it into points, we would have taken back some of the momentum and maybe have held on to win.
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Yeah, that was a killer.

Let me edit to say, the blame shouldn't solely be on Groulx, he's still young and I think he'll improve. He's just not ready to be relied upon that much right now. Greene getting hurt, really was a factor too down the stretch. I try not to dwell on it much, but imagine having Surratt, Greene and Roberson starting for us.
 
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The defense is missing Greer, Masterson, Davis, Keith, Holmes, T. Williams and who else? Is Kenneth Dicks out too? Don't remember him being in the game.
 
CONeill said:
Nobody other than Hartman is pointing to the offense as "the problem" (and that's only at himself), and it's pretty clear there's a consensus here that that's misplaced and just Sam trying to absorb blame for others.

But when you have 45 points midway through the third quarter and finish with 53 only because you orchestrated a 2-minute offense against prevent, that's a problem.

I mean, I understand the WF offense. Take what the defense gives, yadda yadda yadda. But if you know you're missing Greene, you don't have A.T. Perry all game, Donald Stewart hasn't played in the game yet, Nolan Groulx has shown little ... that's the situation you trust instead of your two workhorse RBs and an offensive line that had 188 rushing yards in the first 3 quarters?
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How often do you see a team score 45 points, and then only be able to pick up one 1st down in their next 5 possessions against what should be a tired and demoralized defense?
 
Pilchard said:
The staff trusts the OL, but UNC stacked the box in the 4th quarter and dared WF to throw as they knew Greene was out. Routes were open, but there were too many drops and receivers not fighting for the ball in the 4th quarter.

That's the WF offense:

- If the opponent overplays the run, WF passes;
- If the opponent overplays the pass, WF runs.

WF will always follow the plan of taking what the defense gives.

Crazy that WF scores 53, gains 600+ yards and anyone tries to point the offense as the problem.
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From someone who has an issue with how the offense is run(and has had one all year)

By every metric, Wake Forest's OL actually became much better against the run and worse pass-blocking(as evidenced by allowing the most sacks(tied with the Clemson game), QB Hits, and 2nd in Hurries all season. There's a reason they bring in Suhren specifically for designed runs, he's one of the best run blockers on the team.

Taking what the defense gives you is one thing but Bateman's defense is one that hates having more than 4-5 people committed to bring pressure both run wise and pass wise unless they're on the goalline.

What's baffling to me is the complete 180 the staff had from the last 3 games(basically refusing to throw the ball when up a decent margin and chewing the clock) to running the ball 5 times in 5 drives up 14 when you're down both of your outside WRs, 2 playable corners, 2 1/2 safeties(the refusal to play Rucker 1/2 of the snaps he had against cuse was baffling.)

Wake had 2 preferable matchups and exploited it for 2 1/2 quarters. They picked on Patrice Rene constantly and they had a much better OL than UNC has DL + LB on Saturday. The second one of your matchups is taken away, why abandon the other? On drives Wake scored a TD on vs punts/FG/turnovers on downs(excluding the prevent drive and end of half)

4.4 designed runs vs 1.75 designed runs.

Defense has it's own set of issues that shouldnt be excused. They werent healthy either but running Andersen out there to cover speedsters wasn't a good idea and then lost Ja'Cquez. But they also got straight up hung out to dry in between wake's last 2 touchdowns. The personnel didn't match the playcalling and it painfully showed
 
I agree our Sam was great. In my mind there were two plays that broke our back both involving Groulx. First when Sam missed him high on what would have been six and we got three. The other was the drop. Hurt so bad to watch it slip away but knew we would need at least one more TD when we were up by 21.
 
CONeill said:
In the next five possessions after going up 21:

20 plays -- 14 of them passes. As noted: When Wake is running the ball effectively, an opposing defense doesn't have to prove it can stop them. It just has to present the illusion that it can stop it, i.e. outnumbering the box and showing blitz. If you do that, Wake will stop running the ball for you. It's a debilitating trait of the staff that doesn't exactly portray that they trust skill and execution of the offensive line. [AND] I mean, I understand the WF offense. Take what the defense gives, yadda yadda yadda. But if you know you're missing Greene, you don't have A.T. Perry all game, Donald Stewart hasn't played in the game yet, Nolan Groulx has shown little ... that's the situation you trust instead of your two workhorse RBs and an offensive line that had 188 rushing yards in the first 3 quarters?
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^Totally deserves repeating.
 
DeacAssured said:
^Totally deserves repeating.
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Yeah, in the RPO the defense can kind of dictate what they want you to do. I'm not for continuing to run into a brick wall, but we should've made UNC prove they could stop the run instead of just letting them show they were trying to stop it and automatically going to more pass. Of course, if we hadn't had a few drops and bad throws, then it would've worked. At no time though, did I think 45 points was enough.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
Yeah, in the RPO the defense can kind of dictate what they want you to do. I'm not for continuing to run into a brick wall, but we should've made UNC prove they could stop the run instead of just letting them show they were trying to stop it and automatically going to more pass. Of course, if we hadn't had a few drops and bad throws, then it would've worked. At no time though, did I think 45 points was enough.
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I think this is where we miss a Dortch-type slot receiver and a Serigne TE. If the box is stacked, then one of those two need to be open instantly. Roberson has been fantastic. He seems to make a lot of plays 7-15 yards down the field. He operates more like an outside receiver. Wake currently gets zero production out of the non-Greene outside WR spot. Why not try and move Roberson out there and let Morin and Williams play in the slot. Williams seems to have the quickness to be open in <5-7 steps with only 1 cut. You need that against stacked boxes and blitzes.
 
skinnydeac said:
I think this is where we miss a Dortch-type slot receiver and a Serigne TE. If the box is stacked, then one of those two need to be open instantly. Roberson has been fantastic. He seems to make a lot of plays 7-15 yards down the field. He operates more like an outside receiver. Wake currently gets zero production out of the non-Greene outside WR spot. Why not try and move Roberson out there and let Morin and Williams play in the slot. Williams seems to have the quickness to be open in <5-7 steps with only 1 cut. You need that against stacked boxes and blitzes.
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They tried Morin out there late after the fruitless Donald Stewart targets. I wouldn't be surprised to see that extend and expand for Duke and remaining games; esp. with how impressed they seem to be with Ke'Shawn Williams' development.

For whatever reason, they seem intent on keeping Roberson in the slot.
 
CONeill said:
They tried Morin out there late after the fruitless Donald Stewart targets. I wouldn't be surprised to see that extend and expand for Duke and remaining games; esp. with how impressed they seem to be with Ke'Shawn Williams' development.

For whatever reason, they seem intent on keeping Roberson in the slot.
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Maybe you can bring that up in the next press conference. I'm sure Clawson would love a question that starts with, "Some anonymous message board poster wants to know..."
 
CONeill said:
They tried Morin out there late after the fruitless Donald Stewart targets. I wouldn't be surprised to see that extend and expand for Duke and remaining games; esp. with how impressed they seem to be with Ke'Shawn Williams' development.

For whatever reason, they seem intent on keeping Roberson in the slot.
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Maybe because Roberson has been the top ranked slot receiver in the country for a large part of the season.
 
Pilchard said:
Maybe because Roberson has been the top ranked slot receiver in the country for a large part of the season.
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... right, and that means he wouldn't be an upgrade if he played on the outside over Groulx and Stewart?
 
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