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2020-21 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread - Will the Zags Go Unbeaten?

RJKarl said:
Wake would never hire Drew nor with many other schools. It would be one thing if his tactics were only questioned in coming back from the Dave Bliss debacle as there has been a lot of coaching churn in the past eighteen years. However, it has been consistent through a generation of insiders.

Add on top of that the history of Baylor allowing and covering up criminal activity throughout this century is another factor.

That place stinks to high heaven and has for a while.
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The Bliss shit is ancient history, made worse by the fact that a kid was killed. But neither Baylor nor Bliss killed that kid. Bliss used his death to cover up his own violations, which is deplorable, but separate from the issue of the violation itself. Now if you're talking about Briles, I'd agree that there is some stinkiness going on there, though I think Briles was largely the fall guy for a bigger problem of negligence within the Waco PD and bad looks in the administration. They were willing to cut ties with a top 5 football coach to save bigger fish, a story as old as politics.

If there are similarities between Briles and Drew, it's that they both largely thrived on recruiting 3 and 4 star guys to suit their style and used them with great success. People started to get suspicious of Drew when he was pulling 5 stars to Waco for a few years. He got Perry Jones to commit before he was anybody and Jones honored that commitment because he didn't like how the other schools recruited him and the shadiness they employed. After that commitment, he ended up winning more games in one season than Wake ever has and landed another, then another. And between then and this year, it's been a steady flow of 3 and 4 star guys. They got a 5 star guy in this year's class, which is what happens when you are a top 1-2 team for consecutive seasons.
 
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It wasn't just the Waco PD. Ken Starr was part of it. the coaching staff was part of it. The Administration was part of the cover-up.

It's not just Bliss. Drew's colleagues from all over the nation think he's dirty and have been consistent with this concept for over decade and as recently as 2019. Sorry, he is good coach but he and Baylor are dirty and don't care...unless they get caught.
 
Can you post a link to the 2016 dirtiest coach poll?

Amazing how I’ve missed the polling process where coaches narc on each other.
 
I thought Drew's reputation was more about negative recruiting tactics than straight up cheating, but this is just my hazy memory speaking.
 
Pilchard said:
Can you post a link to the 2016 dirtiest coach poll?

Amazing how I’ve missed the polling process where coaches narc on each other.
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He's referring to a 2012 CBS poll of less than 100 coaches. The "dirty" reputation was led by Rick Barnes because Barnes didn't like how Drew used negative recruiting as a tool. If i remember right Cal was #1.

The Baylor staff did get popped for some improper cell phone usage at one point. The "dirty" accusations left with Barnes, but I wouldn't expect RJ to keep up with that.
 
Pilchard said:
Can you post a link to the 2016 dirtiest coach poll?

Amazing how I’ve missed the polling process where coaches narc on each other.
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https://thecomeback.com/ncaa/dislike...at-baylor.html

"So why does everyone hate Scott Drew? Because he’s dirty, opposing coaches would say. Because he can’t coach, fans would say.

But there’s really no evidence to say he’s anything other than a good basketball coach.

Drew was voted by his (anonymous) peers as the second-dirtiest coach in college basketball, according to a CBS Sports poll. The contempt was vicious:

“I don’t even have to blink when I say the answer,” one coach told CBS. “He’s despised by a lot of people because he comes off holier than God. Meanwhile, everyone knows he’s had to cheat big-time to get the program to where it’s at. If it wasn’t for the God stuff he wouldn’t rub people the wrong way as much.”

Former Texas coach Rick Barnes, now at Tennessee, sounded off on Drew’s hiring of a top prospect’s AAU coach. And he insinuated that Drew was violating NCAA recruiting rules. From The New York Times:

Asked if he had anything else to say about Drew’s recruiting practices, Barnes said, “I wish I could.”

It's conceivable that the above article was referencing this poll.

Here's a link from 2012

https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...-in-the-sport/
 
My 2 cents, and I don't think it would have changed the outcome but Suggs came in too amped and made two risky rookie moves in the first 3 minutes that changed the landscape right off the bat. Driving out of control and a reach in and he goes to the bench and the die was cast. Great kid, tough choices and tougher outcome. Timme got 7 shots so his ability was not the limiting factor. Baylor went hard and shot lights out and earned the Natty.
 
Once Baylor got those 2-3 offensive rebounds on that first possession, that’s when the die was cast IMO.
 
I'm not getting into whatever you guys are talking about because I haven't followed college b-ball at all this year, but I knew Gonzaga and Baylor were at the top.

BUT...For the first time since I've been filling out brackets I actually did well....I got 3/4 Final Four teams, and both Finals teams and the Champions. It felt awesome.

Carry on...
 
RJKarl said:
https://thecomeback.com/ncaa/dislike...at-baylor.html

"So why does everyone hate Scott Drew? Because he’s dirty, opposing coaches would say. Because he can’t coach, fans would say.

But there’s really no evidence to say he’s anything other than a good basketball coach.

Drew was voted by his (anonymous) peers as the second-dirtiest coach in college basketball, according to a CBS Sports poll. The contempt was vicious:

“I don’t even have to blink when I say the answer,” one coach told CBS. “He’s despised by a lot of people because he comes off holier than God. Meanwhile, everyone knows he’s had to cheat big-time to get the program to where it’s at. If it wasn’t for the God stuff he wouldn’t rub people the wrong way as much.”

Former Texas coach Rick Barnes, now at Tennessee, sounded off on Drew’s hiring of a top prospect’s AAU coach. And he insinuated that Drew was violating NCAA recruiting rules. From The New York Times:

Asked if he had anything else to say about Drew’s recruiting practices, Barnes said, “I wish I could.”

It's conceivable that the above article was referencing this poll.

Here's a link from 2012

https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...-in-the-sport/
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So the opinions of his competitors are now facts.
 
How do they come to those opinions? How come this has been going on for almost two decades? We aren't talking about one person saying this once.

Something else is the question wasn't "Is he dirty?" The questions was, "Is he the dirtiest?" That's a completely different level.
 
RJKarl said:
How do they come to those opinions? How come this has been going on for almost two decades? We aren't talking about one person saying this once.

Something else is the question wasn't "Is he dirty?" The questions was, "Is he the dirtiest?" That's a completely different level.
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If WFU had Baylor's current program, coach and players, we would be falling over with joy. Just because WFU creates unnecessary (and sometimes pretentious) obstacles to athletic success (i.e., the transfer-in rules) does not mean that other schools who don't are dirty. I think Drew comes across very well in interviews (notwithstanding all the Jeebus business), and they are about as fun to watch as possible.

If Baylor was up to something, you can rest assured UT and OU (the kings of this MC) would have its head.
 
It's not my opinion. It's his peers and not just at one time for almost two decades.

Again, the question wasn't "is he dirty?" Lots of programs are. It was "is he the dirtiest?"

The schools won't open their mouths as they might get caught themselves.
 
RJKarl said:
It's not my opinion. It's his peers and not just at one time for almost two decades.

Again, the question wasn't "is he dirty?" Lots of programs are. It was "is he the dirtiest?"

The schools won't open their mouths as they might get caught themselves.
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So everyone is dirty? As in there aren't any virgins in college basketball?
 
Really weak to claim that Baylor's 2021 title resulted from Baylor cheating based upon a 2012 article that seemed to be born out of Rick Barnes frustration that he was losing recruits to Baylor.

Since that article, there is hard evidence that:

- UNC created a false curriculum for basketball players that handed 4.0 GPAs for not attending a single class
- Direct payments to players by LSU, Arizona, Auburn, NC State, USC among others
- Shoe companies paying family members if they choose their sponsored school (Duke, L'ville, Kansas, among others)

Have no idea if or how often Scott Drew crossed the line to land recruits or keep players in school on the 2021 team, but there is tangible evidence that all of the schools identified above cheated in recent recruiting cycles. Unlike the evidence produced in those scandals, don't know of any evidence uncovered that linked the current Baylor players to NCAA violations. If there are (not a 2012 article, when most of the current Baylor players were pre-teens), would like to see it.

Otherwise, the claim that Baylor's 2021 title came be way of "cheating" is just sour grapes.
 
Pilchard said:
Really weak to claim that Baylor's 2021 title resulted from Baylor cheating based upon a 2012 article that seemed to be born out of Rick Barnes frustration that he was losing recruits to Baylor.

Since that article, there is hard evidence that:

- UNC created a false curriculum for basketball players that handed 4.0 GPAs for not attending a single class
- Direct payments to players by LSU, Arizona, Auburn, NC State, USC among others
- Shoe companies paying family members if they choose their sponsored school (Duke, L'ville, Kansas, among others)

Have no idea if or how often Scott Drew crossed the line to land recruits or keep players in school on the 2021 team, but there is tangible evidence that all of the schools identified above cheated in recent recruiting cycles. Unlike the evidence produced in those scandals, don't know of any evidence uncovered that linked the current Baylor players to NCAA violations. If there are (not a 2012 article, when most of the current Baylor players were pre-teens), would like to see it.

Otherwise, the claim that Baylor's 2021 title came be way of "cheating" is just sour grapes.
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Did I say that? No!

The fact others are dirty doesn't change that Drew is considered the second dirtiest by his peers.
 
However Drew got his players there, he kept them there and managed to trot out an 8-man rotation of grown ass men, none of whom were top 50 prospects in high school.

Two seniors, both of them 5 years out of high school, plus 4 juniors and two sophomores.

Carter Whitt was in 8th grade when Teague and Vital first got to college.
 
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