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Thread: Sarr

  1. #81
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    Collins is the outlier and Manning barely played him as a freshman.

  2. #82
    The Pumpfaker Paul Hogan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
    How does Sar Struggling at his next destination say anything good about manning as a coach?

    Also, Dinos had a pro-contract offer in Grease before coming to Wake and then had one three years later, for more money sure, but it's not like Manning took a one dimentional european player and turned him into a late first round draft pick. Moore is stuck in the D-league average ~7 points a game. Thomas is having a pretty good career in Europe, but he could have left after is sophomore season and gotten there anyway. Collins is the outlier that drags up manning's average and not basis on which we should draw inference. I just don't see that manning did anything exceptional or noteworthy with any player over 6'9" other than Collins. Sarr was looking like the second player to demonstrate massive improvement under Manning's coaching, but turns out he kinda sucks.
    Sarr would have made a great Danny Zuko.


  3. #83
    Sorry, I would take Calipari coaching any position group over Manning. And I donít think Calipari is necessarily any hot stuff besides at the recruiting and enthusiasm game. I just donít believe there is any such thing as Manning magic for big men. He was a phenomenal player but doesnít understand how to translate those skills to other people. You know, the job of a coach.

    I admit my bitterness bias.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Collins is the outlier and Manning barely played him as a freshman.
    I'm fine with labeling Manning as awful in every category, but not accurate to claim that Manning "barely played him".

    Fouls kept Collins on the bench more than anything else when he was a frosh. If Collins didn't foul so much, he would've played a lot more.

    Collins fouled out twice, and collected 3 (11 times) or 4 (seven times) fouls 18 times in 31 games. That means number Manning fouls were an issue in 20 of his 31 games, including 3 or more fouls in each one of his last 7 games as a frosh.

  5. #85
    Article on ESPN right now talking about Calipari publicly asking one of their freshman to ďstep awayĒ from the program. Yikes, sounds like full on meltdown over there. Btw, not like Cal will ever be fired but itís been quite some time since they have done anything noteworthy relative to the talent flowing into the program. Have to figure the lunatics are getting hungry.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
    How does Sar Struggling at his next destination say anything good about manning as a coach?

    Also, Dinos had a pro-contract offer in Greece before coming to Wake and then had one three years later, for more money sure, but it's not like Manning took a one dimentional european player and turned him into a late first round draft pick. Moore is stuck in the D-league average ~7 points a game. Thomas is having a pretty good career in Europe, but he could have left after is sophomore season and gotten there anyway. Collins is the outlier that drags up manning's average and not basis on which we should draw inference. I just don't see that manning did anything exceptional or noteworthy with any player over 6'9" other than Collins. Sarr was looking like the second player to demonstrate massive improvement under Manning's coaching, but turns out he kinda sucks.
    Moore was really bad his first year, not so great his Soph year, and Jr year was leading the nation in FG% while putting up pretty consistent numbers. Manning moved Devin Thomas away from the basket in his SR year and Thomas became really efficient offensively and averaged nearly 16 and 10 for the year. And how does Sarr sucking at UK indicate that Manning failed to develop him. Sarr was the #1 transfer prospect last year in college basketball . . . because he had become a good player under Manning.

    Manning was bad at the X's and O's, overall recruiting, and running a whole program, I agree. But the development of big men is the only debate we can have under Manning, no other positions had players significantly improve.
    Last edited by MichDeac25; 12-21-2020 at 05:09 PM.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by MichDeac25 View Post
    Moore was really bad his first year, not so great his Soph year, and Jr year was leading the nation in FG% while putting up pretty consistent numbers. Manning moved Devin Thomas away from the basket in his SR year and Thomas became really efficient offensively and averaged nearly 16 and 10 for the year. And how does Sarr sucking at UK indicate that Manning failed to develop him. Sarr was the #1 transfer prospect last year in college basketball . . . because he had become a good player under Manning.

    Manning was bad at the X's and O's, overall recruiting, and running a whole program, I agree. But the development of big men is the only debate we can have under Manning, no other positions had players significantly improve.
    Moore barely played as a freshman but his per 40s were better across the board and his field goal percentage was 65% compare the 68% as a Junior. I think it is at least debatable that he showed significant improvement rather than just played more.

    Regarding Sarr, you're answering my question with a question, how does Sarr sucking at KY show that manning was a good coach? Seems like the skills you learn should be transferable to other settings. If I was the greatest bird watcher in the state of Alabama, but hadn't seen a single sparrow since moving to Florida, was I ever really that good at watching birds?
    Birds are real.

  8. #88
    If Kentucky had guards capable and willing to get Sarr the ball in the low post his performance would improve. They haven't so far.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
    Moore barely played as a freshman but his per 40s were better across the board and his field goal percentage was 65% compare the 68% as a Junior. I think it is at least debatable that he showed significant improvement rather than just played more.

    Regarding Sarr, you're answering my question with a question, how does Sarr sucking at KY show that manning was a good coach? Seems like the skills you learn should be transferable to other settings. If I was the greatest bird watcher in the state of Alabama, but hadn't seen a single sparrow since moving to Florida, was I ever really that good at watching birds?
    Did you watch the games? Doral was horrible his freshman year. HORRIBLE. Get out of here with his per 40.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilchard View Post
    I'm fine with labeling Manning as awful in every category, but not accurate to claim that Manning "barely played him".

    Fouls kept Collins on the bench more than anything else when he was a frosh. If Collins didn't foul so much, he would've played a lot more.

    Collins fouled out twice, and collected 3 (11 times) or 4 (seven times) fouls 18 times in 31 games. That means number Manning fouls were an issue in 20 of his 31 games, including 3 or more fouls in each one of his last 7 games as a frosh.
    Itís a stretch to say a player who finished a game with under 20 minutes and 3 fouls didnít play more due to foul trouble. Manning gave Collins 5 and 7 minutes against losses to VT and Cuse. He didnít have any fouls by the way.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackjackMc View Post
    If Kentucky had guards capable and willing to get Sarr the ball in the low post his performance would improve. They haven't so far.
    My impression as well.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by MichDeac25 View Post
    Did you watch the games? Doral was horrible his freshman year. HORRIBLE. Get out of here with his per 40.
    The question still stands, what about Sarrís poor performance at KY says that Manning was a good big man coach? I really donít understand that logic.
    Birds are real.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
    The question still stands, what about Sarrís poor performance at KY says that Manning was a good big man coach? I really donít understand that logic.
    Are you under the impression than Manning is now coaching Sarr at Kentucky where he is not putting up great numbers but was not coaching at Wake Forest last year when Sarr put up numbers that made him 3rd team All-ACC, runner up most improved player in the conference, and the #1 transfer portal player in the country?

    Manning could coach big men. He couldn't do any of the other 20+ aspects of successful coaching at an ACC program. Why is this a debate? Do people just need to believe he was an absolute failure in every possible way or they can't sleep at night?

  14. #94
    Moore scored in double digits 3 games against ACC opponents and had another game with 8 points and another game with 6 his freshman year mostly playing spot minutes. He would regularly play 6 or 8 minutes and have 4 points 2 or 3 rebounds and a block or 2. That is not horrible for a freshman big man not even close

  15. #95
    Sam "Ace" Rothstein
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
    The question still stands, what about Sarrís poor performance at KY says that Manning was a good big man coach? I really donít understand that logic.
    Iím not gonna say Manning was a great big man coach, but a lot of Sarrís offensive success may have been due to Manningís focus on paint touches and getting him the ball close to the basket.

    As for the Collins example, weíve been through it numerous times before. Doral, too.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by DeacsATS View Post
    Iím not gonna say Manning was a great big man coach, but a lot of Sarrís offensive success may have been due to Manningís focus on paint touches and getting him the ball close to the basket.
    Bingo. Good basketball coaches realize that that is not an efficient offensive strategy. Iím guessing Kentucky doesnít feed Sarr the ball in the post because that is a shit offensive strategy.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by DCDeac View Post
    Are you under the impression than Manning is now coaching Sarr at Kentucky where he is not putting up great numbers but was not coaching at Wake Forest last year when Sarr put up numbers that made him 3rd team All-ACC, runner up most improved player in the conference, and the #1 transfer portal player in the country?

    Manning could coach big men. He couldn't do any of the other 20+ aspects of successful coaching at an ACC program. Why is this a debate? Do people just need to believe he was an absolute failure in every possible way or they can't sleep at night?
    No. I was under the impression that if Manning was such a great big man coach Sarr would have learned something from him and been a good player when he left.

    Iím not saying Manning was a bad big man coach, Iím say that I donít think he was/is great. I give the man no credit for anything without abundant evidence.
    Birds are real.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
    No. I was under the impression that if Manning was such a great big man coach Sarr would have learned something from him and been a good player when he left.

    Iím not saying Manning was a bad big man coach, Iím say that I donít think he was/is great. I give the man no credit for anything without abundant evidence.
    More points.

    Manning had a reputation, backed by multiple examples, as a good big man coach at Kansas. Self is on record saying that. I doubt Self says it if he didn't believe it.

    Wake fans know that the ball doesn't magically appear in Sarr's hands and therefore he needs the guards to feed him. Danny designed his offense to make that happen for his bigs. That was part of the reason for his "paint touches" mantra.

    Shooting 60% from in close gets 120 points plus in 100 shot attempts. Three point shooters need to make 40% to match. 40% from three land is uncommon. So it's not so terrible to game plan to make a high percentage of 2's.

  19. #99
    The Pumpfaker Paul Hogan's Avatar
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    Do we really need to count Doral Moore's fouls from five years ago to determine exactly how bad of a coach Manning was ?

  20. #100
    I agree with this. They never look to get the ball to Sarr. This ended up being a bad move . It would have been different of he could have played in front of sale out crowds. Terrible year in sports for any senior.

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