Collins is the outlier and Manning barely played him as a freshman.
Collins is the outlier and Manning barely played him as a freshman.
Sarr would have made a great Danny Zuko.Originally Posted by birdman
Sorry, I would take Calipari coaching any position group over Manning. And I don’t think Calipari is necessarily any hot stuff besides at the recruiting and enthusiasm game. I just don’t believe there is any such thing as Manning magic for big men. He was a phenomenal player but doesn’t understand how to translate those skills to other people. You know, the job of a coach.
I admit my bitterness bias.
I'm fine with labeling Manning as awful in every category, but not accurate to claim that Manning "barely played him".
Fouls kept Collins on the bench more than anything else when he was a frosh. If Collins didn't foul so much, he would've played a lot more.
Collins fouled out twice, and collected 3 (11 times) or 4 (seven times) fouls 18 times in 31 games. That means number Manning fouls were an issue in 20 of his 31 games, including 3 or more fouls in each one of his last 7 games as a frosh.
Article on ESPN right now talking about Calipari publicly asking one of their freshman to “step away” from the program. Yikes, sounds like full on meltdown over there. Btw, not like Cal will ever be fired but it’s been quite some time since they have done anything noteworthy relative to the talent flowing into the program. Have to figure the lunatics are getting hungry.
Moore was really bad his first year, not so great his Soph year, and Jr year was leading the nation in FG% while putting up pretty consistent numbers. Manning moved Devin Thomas away from the basket in his SR year and Thomas became really efficient offensively and averaged nearly 16 and 10 for the year. And how does Sarr sucking at UK indicate that Manning failed to develop him. Sarr was the #1 transfer prospect last year in college basketball . . . because he had become a good player under Manning.
Manning was bad at the X's and O's, overall recruiting, and running a whole program, I agree. But the development of big men is the only debate we can have under Manning, no other positions had players significantly improve.
Last edited by MichDeac25; 12-21-2020 at 05:09 PM.
Moore barely played as a freshman but his per 40s were better across the board and his field goal percentage was 65% compare the 68% as a Junior. I think it is at least debatable that he showed significant improvement rather than just played more.
Regarding Sarr, you're answering my question with a question, how does Sarr sucking at KY show that manning was a good coach? Seems like the skills you learn should be transferable to other settings. If I was the greatest bird watcher in the state of Alabama, but hadn't seen a single sparrow since moving to Florida, was I ever really that good at watching birds?
Birds are real.
If Kentucky had guards capable and willing to get Sarr the ball in the low post his performance would improve. They haven't so far.
Did you watch the games? Doral was horrible his freshman year. HORRIBLE. Get out of here with his per 40.
It’s a stretch to say a player who finished a game with under 20 minutes and 3 fouls didn’t play more due to foul trouble. Manning gave Collins 5 and 7 minutes against losses to VT and Cuse. He didn’t have any fouls by the way.
My impression as well.
The question still stands, what about Sarr’s poor performance at KY says that Manning was a good big man coach? I really don’t understand that logic.
Birds are real.
Are you under the impression than Manning is now coaching Sarr at Kentucky where he is not putting up great numbers but was not coaching at Wake Forest last year when Sarr put up numbers that made him 3rd team All-ACC, runner up most improved player in the conference, and the #1 transfer portal player in the country?
Manning could coach big men. He couldn't do any of the other 20+ aspects of successful coaching at an ACC program. Why is this a debate? Do people just need to believe he was an absolute failure in every possible way or they can't sleep at night?
Moore scored in double digits 3 games against ACC opponents and had another game with 8 points and another game with 6 his freshman year mostly playing spot minutes. He would regularly play 6 or 8 minutes and have 4 points 2 or 3 rebounds and a block or 2. That is not horrible for a freshman big man not even close
I’m not gonna say Manning was a great big man coach, but a lot of Sarr’s offensive success may have been due to Manning’s focus on paint touches and getting him the ball close to the basket.
As for the Collins example, we’ve been through it numerous times before. Doral, too.
Bingo. Good basketball coaches realize that that is not an efficient offensive strategy. I’m guessing Kentucky doesn’t feed Sarr the ball in the post because that is a shit offensive strategy.
No. I was under the impression that if Manning was such a great big man coach Sarr would have learned something from him and been a good player when he left.
I’m not saying Manning was a bad big man coach, I’m say that I don’t think he was/is great. I give the man no credit for anything without abundant evidence.
Birds are real.
More points.
Manning had a reputation, backed by multiple examples, as a good big man coach at Kansas. Self is on record saying that. I doubt Self says it if he didn't believe it.
Wake fans know that the ball doesn't magically appear in Sarr's hands and therefore he needs the guards to feed him. Danny designed his offense to make that happen for his bigs. That was part of the reason for his "paint touches" mantra.
Shooting 60% from in close gets 120 points plus in 100 shot attempts. Three point shooters need to make 40% to match. 40% from three land is uncommon. So it's not so terrible to game plan to make a high percentage of 2's.
Do we really need to count Doral Moore's fouls from five years ago to determine exactly how bad of a coach Manning was ?
I agree with this. They never look to get the ball to Sarr. This ended up being a bad move . It would have been different of he could have played in front of sale out crowds. Terrible year in sports for any senior.
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