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A college degree is a lousy investment

Merlin said:
My comment may be a little off subject but it comes up in conversation with my wake buddies, all of us finished in the early 80's, when we talk about the cost of going to Wake. Very few out of our group have kids who went to Wake or are going to Wake. The two major reasons are the cost and the sense (at least the perception) that the faculty and their teaching, like almost other liberal art schools, are overwhelmingly liberal with little representation of those who disagree. I saw this recent study, which does not include Wake, but most of the liberal arts colleges that compete with us, are listed: http://tinyurl.com/ ycfomjy6 which shows almost no diversity when it comes to political affiliation among professors.

My kids have a few years before worrying about college, part of me would love to see them go to Wake but these two factors will probably bother me as well.
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Interesting, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

There does seem to be a perception that Academia has a general [political] liberal slant, but I don't think that notion is particularly germane to a liberal arts education (as noted by Ph/phan09). The latter is intended to expose students to a broad swath of ideas, concepts, people and opinions so that students emerge well-equipped to tackle the world.

The small classroom, liberal arts education I got from Wake was invaluable, and it was the chief reason I picked MSD (plus sports!). But like you, I am also very concerned about its cost for my children (It was probably too much for me, honestly). My second reason of concern also has to do with diversity, but it is with the student body. WFU has always battled with homogeneity to some extent, and I hope they continue to make strides to accept and support students from variegated backgrounds.
 
Merlin said:
then it seems like from your note, in order to expand your exposure to ideas beyond this "narrow upbringing" that we all receive, you would be concerned as well that only one side of story is being told by professors. And I assure you, all of these parents's kids are doing well in college and after college, they seem to be dealing with the "complexity" of the real world just fine. It is a shame that at least a few them did not end up at Wake.
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Answer my question above. What is that “one side of the story” and how would the other side be different in an engineering classroom or an English classroom or whatever?
 
awaken said:
http://amp.newsobserver.com/opinion/article209658869.html
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Right

The increased Dem party representation on campus might, just might, have something to do with the intellectual deterioration of the Republican Party. Since historically relevant conservative ideas and policies have essentially failed, Pubs are leaning more on white Christian nationalism as a platform.

Thankfully, that’s not a formula the academy will or should embrace.


A conservative intellectual explains why the GOP has fallen to Donald Trump


The Decline of The Conservative Intellectual

Who Ate Republicans’ Brains?

‘Trump Is What Happens When a Political Party Abandons Ideas’: As surprising as Trump’s young presidency has been, it’s also the natural outgrowth of 30 years of Republican pandering to the lowest common denominator in American politics.

The moral and intellectual bankruptcy of the Republican Party



Ad nauseam.


If “conservatives” want more seats in the academy, maybe they should try embracing (rather then fleeing) truth and reality first.
 
Damn.

I thought I was posting that on a Tunnels thread.

Apologies, but I’ll leave it nonetheless.
 
nothing says conviction in your beliefs like sheltering your kids from potential different points of view
 
there's also the fact that conservatism and intellectualism are hard to reconcile
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Or perhaps liberals are just not intellectual enough as to be able to easily reconcile them. Some things are harder for stupid people, no shame in admitting that.
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ah yes, the core concept of Conservatives: people who seek greater wisdom are more stupid than people who don't
 
If the professors at the top universities were almost all white men like they were in 1970, there would be a lot higher percentage of Republican professors.

Instead, academia is open to men and women of all races and nationalities. People who aren’t white men lean Democrat.
 
there is a strong correlation between lack of education and a conservative worldview globally
 
Right. Conservatives think it’s some grand conspiracy. It’s mostly a culmination of a few different trends.

I’m guessing the percentage of white evangelical pastors who are Democrats has declined sharply. It’s not a conspiracy. It’s just a culmination of different trends.
 
Merlin said:
then it seems like from your note, in order to expand your exposure to ideas beyond this "narrow upbringing" that we all receive, you would be concerned as well that only one side of story is being told by professors. And I assure you, all of these parents's kids are doing well in college and after college, they seem to be dealing with the "complexity" of the real world just fine. It is a shame that at least a few them did not end up at Wake.
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Yes, people can do fine in the world without a liberal arts education. That's absolutely true. But you send your kid to wake because you want to give them the kind of broad learning and contact they can't and won't get at an R1.

I'm just confused about the "only one side of the story" you're talking about. How do you only teach one side of Aristotle or Chaucer or Shakespeare? I guess you could consciously elide the fact that Aristotle was was probably black or that Chaucer was probably a rapist or that Shakespeare collaboratively wrote a number of his plays. Or choose to focus on them. Your gripe sounds more about the culture wars in general and the fact that college campuses tend to be hubs of activism -- which, I'll point out, runs both ways.

For just about every liberal crazy on a college campus there's someone on the other side. Just probably in philosophy or economics or business rather than Mexican-American Studies or Women's and Gender Studies. I wonder why.
 
Worrying about this is bad enough, but if you’re worried about this at Wake Forest of all places then wow.

Come to think of it, my astronomy class at Wake was pretty liberal in that it acknowledged the presence of celestial bodies other than heaven, that the earth is not 6000 years old, that those are stars and not angels, etc. Yeah maybe it’s safer to just have them go to Liberty where they definitely will not get stupider and brainwashed.
 
06deacon said:
Worrying about this is bad enough, but if you’re worried about this at Wake Forest of all places then wow.

Come to think of it, my astronomy class at Wake was pretty liberal in that it acknowledged the presence of celestial bodies other than heaven, that the earth is not 6000 years old, that those are stars and not angels, etc. Yeah maybe it’s safer to just have them go to Liberty where they definitely will not get stupider and brainwashed.
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thanks, obama
 
wakephan09 said:
Yes, people can do fine in the world without a liberal arts education. That's absolutely true. But you send your kid to wake because you want to give them the kind of broad learning and contact they can't and won't get at an R1.

I'm just confused about the "only one side of the story" you're talking about. How do you only teach one side of Aristotle or Chaucer or Shakespeare? I guess you could consciously elide the fact that Aristotle was was probably black or that Chaucer was probably a rapist or that Shakespeare collaboratively wrote a number of his plays. Or choose to focus on them. Your gripe sounds more about the culture wars in general and the fact that college campuses tend to be hubs of activism -- which, I'll point out, runs both ways.

For just about every liberal crazy on a college campus there's someone on the other side. Just probably in philosophy or economics or business rather than Mexican-American Studies or Women's and Gender Studies. I wonder why.
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You teach the class and use examples from the text to show that Trump in an idiot.
 
PhDeac said:
If the professors at the top universities were almost all white men like they were in 1970, there would be a lot higher percentage of Republican professors.

Instead, academia is open to men and women of all races and nationalities. People who aren’t white men lean Democrat.
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Why?
 
I can’t tell if that’s a serious question or not.
 
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