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Official 2020-21 NBA Finals - Milwaukee Bucks win the NBA Championship!

RJKarl said:
I love John Collins, but any "stat" that says he creates more (or as many) wins as Luka is FOS. To put Mitchell Robinson in the discussion show that formula is worthless.
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Damn guys, RJ says that win shares are a full of shit stat. I guess it's time to stop trying to evaluate anything beyond wins and the eye test
 
deacon14 said:
Damn guys, RJ says that win shares are a full of shit stat. I guess it's time to stop trying to evaluate anything beyond wins and the eye test
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There are lots of things that make sense.

However, do you really think Mitchell Robinson helps his team win as much or more than Luka Doncic?

As I said before, I love john Collins, but do you think there's a GM in the league that thinks that JC will help a team win as much as Luka does?

Of course, making any discussion about me rather than answering direct questions is a board staple.

Please answer those two questions.
 
VORP and BPM are better than win shares, but win shares are a fine stat. But the difference between 2.7 and 2.8 win shares is really not worth arguing about over 25 games. If you look at the rest of the top 25 players you'd say, yea, win shares does a pretty good job identifying how important someone is to their team's winning.
 
RJ,

The win shares stats are accumulated from this THIS SEASON - 25 or so games in. They aren't projections about a player's career or trying to predict future value. In case you haven't noticed, Dallas has struggled this season. They are 12-14. The Knicks are 11-14 (BTW, Mitchell Robinson led the NBA in FG% last year with a ridiculous 72% from the field: Robinson rebounds and blocks shots; he's a 7 footer, that can run and play defense; he is a valuable player and has played to his role this year; no one claims that he will be franchise altering player). Luka would admit that he hasn't played well and the Mavs have not played as expected this year; the stats reflect that. Last year, Luka led a late season surge for Dallas, maybe he will do the same this year, but right now -- 25 games into the season, Luka has not been a franchise changing player and that is reflected in the Mavs record and the win shares stat.

The win shares stat was not posted (and please check the language of all posts on this thread) to argue that Mitchell Robinson (or John Collins) is a franchise changing player or that they are more valuable future assets than Luka. Win shares is simply an analytic snap shot of how players have performed over a specified period of time (e.g., a season or two seasons or a career). Rather than attempting to understand that simple concept, you claim the stat is worthless, when it only reflects what is obvious: Luka has been up and down to start this season.
 
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RJKarl said:
There are lots of things that make sense.

However, do you really think Mitchell Robinson helps his team win as much or more than Luka Doncic?

As I said before, I love john Collins, but do you think there's a GM in the league that thinks that JC will help a team win as much as Luka does?

Of course, making any discussion about me rather than answering direct questions is a board staple.

Please answer those two questions.
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Just relax man. The point of advanced stats is not to use them individually to evaluate players, particularly not in a player to player direct comparison. There's also a confidence interval on win shares very similar to WAR in baseball. I promise you the creator of win shares wouldn't argue that someone with a 2.8 25 games into a season has been definitively better than someone with a 2.7.

If you want to have a legitimate discussion about the merits and drawbacks of advanced stats I'd be happy to do that (probably through PM since I know people here are sick of that), but I'm fairly confident that you'd rather continue believing what you believe, and that's fine, just don't immediately cry foul whenever someone on the internet wants to utilize an advanced stat in a discussion.
 
Could I request that this thread not turn into rjkarl vs math?
 
As a new topic, Curry averaging 30/6/5 while shooting 49%/43.5%/93% to drag the Warriors to 14-12 has gotta be the most impressive thing going on so far this season. Considering that the pre-season conversation was largely dismissing him from continuing to be a top 5-10 player in the league
 
Pilchard said:
RJ,

The win shares stats are accumulated from this THIS SEASON - 25 or so games in. They aren't projections about a player's career or trying to predict future value. In case you haven't noticed, Dallas has struggled this season. They are 12-14. The Knicks are 11-14 (BTW, Mitchell Robinson led the NBA in FG% last year with a ridiculous 72% from the field: Robinson rebounds and blocks shots; he's a 7 footer, that can run and play defense; he is a valuable player and has played to his role this year; no one claims that he will be franchise altering player). Luka would admit that he hasn't played well and the Mavs have not played as expected this year; the stats reflect that. Last year, Luka led a late season surge for Dallas, maybe he will do the same this year, but right now -- 25 games into the season, Luka has not been a franchise changing player and that is reflected in the Mavs record and the win shares stat.

The win shares stat was not posted (and please check the language of all posts on this thread) to argue that Mitchell Robinson (or John Collins) is a franchise changing player or that they are more valuable future assets than Luka. Win shares is simply an analytic snap shot of how players have performed over a specified period of time (e.g., a season or two seasons or a career). Rather than attempting to understand that simple concept, you claim the stat is worthless, when it only reflects what is obvious: Luka has been up and down to start this season.
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If you take Luka off the Macs, they might have only won 2-4 games for this season. If you take Mitchell Robinson from the Knicks, they would lose a couple of games but could make up for him a lot easier.

Once again, I have not, in any way insulted you or your intelligence, but you have done so twice. But it's my fault that you act so classlessly. Your constant arrogance is unbecoming.

"Rather than attempting to understand that simple concept," I do understand the stat, but think it's FOS.
 
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deacon14 said:
As a new topic, Curry averaging 30/6/5 while shooting 49%/43.5%/93% to drag the Warriors to 14-12 has gotta be the most impressive thing going on so far this season. Considering that the pre-season conversation was largely dismissing him from continuing to be a top 5-10 player in the league
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Shaq during Curry highlights last night: "MVP candidate."

I hope we have a legit MVP race between Lebron, Giannis, Curry, Jokic, and maybe Mitchell.
 
PhDeac said:
Shaq during Curry highlights last night: "MVP candidate."

I hope we have a legit MVP race between Lebron, Giannis, Curry, Jokic, and maybe Mitchell.
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Mitchell Robinson? Sorry, I could not resist....
 
PhDeac said:
Shaq during Curry highlights last night: "MVP candidate."

I hope we have a legit MVP race between Lebron, Giannis, Curry, Jokic, and maybe Mitchell.
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you're forgetting someone
 
PhDeac said:
Shaq during Curry highlights last night: "MVP candidate."

I hope we have a legit MVP race between Lebron, Giannis, Curry, Jokic, and maybe Mitchell.
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Embiid, Luka

most ever foreign-born #contendahs?
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
Embiid, Luka

most ever foreign-born #contendahs?
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Dirk was a top contender the years Nash won and vice versa. Can't think of a stretch stronger than that assuming you don't count Duncan as foreign-born.
 
PhDeac said:
Dirk was a top contender the years Nash won and vice versa. Can't think of a stretch stronger than that assuming you don't count Duncan as foreign-born.
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Duncan actually used to be a competitive swimmer until a hurricane came
 
PhDeac said:
Dirk was a top contender the years Nash won and vice versa. Can't think of a stretch stronger than that assuming you don't count Duncan as foreign-born.
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Duncan not foreign born. That said, there is a hardline segment of the US Population considers the US Virgin Islands as a "land of foreigners" since one of the star impeachment managers is a US Virgin Islander. All part of the foreign conspiracy: fraudulent voting machines, impeachment, no national anthem, too many foreigners in the NBA... its all starting to come together.
 
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Didn't get to watch Spurs-Hawks because my kids wanted me to play Super Mario 3D with them. I'll donk up the thread with some tantalizing Luka Samanic G-League highlights. 20/17/6 in his first game. 23/10 yesterday.

 
I will. Spurs up by 39 in the 3rd quarter, they really destroyed ATL tonight. Pop pulled starters in the 3rd qtr. He was pretty pissed off that the subs let the Hawks make it as close as it finished.

Jacob with an other double double.

Interesting that SA is still having the rodeo, sounds like a covid spike coming for the city.
 
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