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Thread: Official 2020-21 NBA Season Thread - EmbiidP returns and Steph drops 50

  1. #281
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    There are a couple of things that are hugely different between the other two engineered super-teams and the Nets. When KD joined the Warriors, the rest of the team had been playing together for years. They also had two defensive stoppers in Klay and Draymond. Miami's Top 3 were all excellent and willing defenders. Kyrie and Harden* are mediocre at best. At Miami and GS, the superstars each had clear, defined roles with very little overlap. Kyrie and Harden each need and want the ball. Each wants to be dominant.

    There are major hurdles here.

    *= Please don't quote Harden had high analytical ratings one year. Townie, MDMH or I (I'm old) or even Generalissimo Francisco Franco (and he's still dead) could have high "analytical ratings" if we played with CP3, Ariza, Luc Mbah a Moute, Capela and even PJ Tucker.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by TenaciousKory View Post
    would you trade Simmons for Harden
    in a vacuum, yes, though it's hard to replace his defensive contributions

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by jaybone View Post
    The Nets will miss Jarrett Allen. I will miss Jarrett Allen. My son is already missing Jarrett Allen, as we used to bump into him at the Target buying $400 lego sets to build in his spare time.
    how many $400 lego sets does target carry?

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Yeah. I donít mind organic big threes through the draft like the Warriors, Thunder, and Spurs or even through free agents. But massive trades in which a team mortgages their future for a short run annoy me.
    Are they really mortgaging their future? They did this for Pierce and Garnett and it was supposed to destroy their future, however their future resulted in getting Durant, Harden and Kyrie

  5. #285
    ďThe past is never dead. It's not even past.Ē
    semi-aquatic like otters be.

  6. #286

    Official 2020-21 NBA Season Thread - Harden to the Nets for 4 picks

    Quote Originally Posted by stugotz View Post
    Are they really mortgaging their future? They did this for Pierce and Garnett and it was supposed to destroy their future, however their future resulted in getting Durant, Harden and Kyrie
    For three seasons between 2015-2017 the Nets won 69 total games. In 2018/19 they miraculously won 42 games with a team lead by DeAngelo Russell. They would still be miserable if they hadnít discovered and developed unheralded prospects and Kyrie Irving wasnít from New Jersey.
    Draxx them sklounst

  7. #287
    Sam "Ace" Rothstein
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Yeah. I donít mind organic big threes through the draft like the Warriors, Thunder, and Spurs or even through free agents. But massive trades in which a team mortgages their future for a short run annoy me.
    I mean, it is a strategy... Just like any other. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

    Worked for the Celtics when they traded for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett to team up w/ Paul Pierce. And none of those guys were "spring chickens".

    Sometimes you aren't mortgaging your future as much as you're sending over a pu pu platter of players that are easily replaceable.

  8. #288
    Sam "Ace" Rothstein
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    Quote Originally Posted by stugotz View Post
    Are they really mortgaging their future? They did this for Pierce and Garnett and it was supposed to destroy their future, however their future resulted in getting Durant, Harden and Kyrie
    I had forgotten Pierce and Garnett even played there at the end. That was never a good idea for the Nets.

  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeacsATS View Post
    I mean, it is a strategy... Just like any other. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

    Worked for the Celtics when they traded for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett to team up w/ Paul Pierce. And none of those guys were "spring chickens".

    Sometimes you aren't mortgaging your future as much as you're sending over a pu pu platter of players that are easily replaceable.
    If you are good team (a playoff team), trading first round picks isn't mortgaging your future. You can fill in your bench or use the mid-level exception to get players that you would get in those slots.

  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeacsATS View Post
    I mean, it is a strategy... Just like any other. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

    Worked for the Celtics when they traded for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett to team up w/ Paul Pierce. And none of those guys were "spring chickens".

    Sometimes you aren't mortgaging your future as much as you're sending over a pu pu platter of players that are easily replaceable.
    Yeah. It's a strategy. But much like tanking, it's a strategy I don't prefer.

  11. #291
    it's a strategy that depends on being a top free agency destination too, which is only available to a handful of teams

  12. #292
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    Maybe HSN is going to try to tank. But no one will take Wall's contract. That will keep them from being bottom four. Being in the middle of the lottery and not being able to bring in players is pretty bad for your team long-term.

  13. #293

    Official 2020-21 NBA Season Thread - Harden to the Nets for 4 picks

    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    If you are good team (a playoff team), trading first round picks isn't mortgaging your future. You can fill in your bench or use the mid-level exception to get players that you would get in those slots.
    RJ I realize that analytics isnít your thing, but NBA front offices are very thorough in determining the value of *future* draft picks. So yes, you are correct that a good team will not have very valuable *current* draft picks thatís why other teams trade them for *future* draft picks. When the Nets were winning 20 games a year for three straight seasons their draft picks were very valuable. Letís take a look at the draft picks the Nets traded to the Celtics:

    2014: #17 James Young (bust)
    2016: #3 Jaylen Brown (very good player)
    2017: #1 traded (Markelle Fultz) for #3 (Jason Tatum) & 2018 #14 (Romeo Langford)
    2018: #8 traded (Colin Sexton) to Cleveland for Kyrie Irving

    So in 2013 the Nets traded their future
    2014 first round (next season): #17
    2016 first round (3 seasons future) #3
    2017 first round (4 seasons future) #1
    2018 first round (5 seasons future) #8

    In this current trade with Houston, the Nets traded their future:

    2021 first round swap (this year)
    2022 first round (next season)
    2022 first round (from Cleveland!)
    2023 first round swap (2 seasons future)
    2024 first round (3 seasons future)
    2025 first round swap (4 seasons future)
    2026 first round (5 seasons future)
    2027 first round swap (6 seasons future)

    I mean címon RJ, thatís 3 first rounders *after* the Nets Big 3 contracts expire
    Last edited by myDeaconmyhand; 01-14-2021 at 05:54 PM.
    Draxx them sklounst

  14. #294
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    Yep. And on top of that they're handling all of this to a first time head coach.

  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by myDeaconmyhand View Post
    RJ I realize that analytics isnít your thing, but NBA front offices are very thorough in determining the value of *future* draft picks. So yes, you are correct that a good team will not have very valuable *current* draft picks thatís why other teams trade them for *future* draft picks. When the Nets were winning 20 games a year for three straight seasons their draft picks were very valuable. Letís take a look at the draft picks the Nets traded to the Celtics:

    2014: #17 James Young (bust)
    2016: #3 Jaylen Brown (very good player)
    2017: #1 traded (Markelle Fultz) for #3 (Jason Tatum) & 2018 #14 (Romeo Langford)
    2018: #8 traded (Colin Sexton) to Cleveland for Kyrie Irving

    So in 2013 the Nets traded their future
    2014 first round (next season): #17
    2016 first round (3 seasons future) #3
    2017 first round (4 seasons future) #1
    2018 first round (5 seasons future) #8

    In this current trade with Houston, the Nets traded their future:

    2021 first round swap (this year)
    2022 first round (next season)
    2022 first round (from Cleveland!)
    2023 first round swap (2 seasons future)
    2024 first round (3 seasons future)
    2025 first round swap (4 seasons future)
    2026 first round (5 seasons future)
    2027 first round swap (6 seasons future)

    I mean címon RJ, thatís 3 first rounders *after* the Nets Big 3 contracts expire
    MDMH- That Nets is considered to be if not the worst trade in NBA history, certainly among the Top 3 worst. It was made by an awful front office and management.

    The current ownership and management of the Nets is not going to allow the team to be that bad. They also a state-of-the-art arena and are in Brooklyn not the Meadowlands.

    For this trade to work at all for the Rox, you have to believe that Sean Mark is going to have a lobotomy and the team will need to be sold.

  16. #296
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    I couldn't edit the above post.

    There biggest difference is the original you are using was for guys who were as over the hill in NBA years as I am in my sports ability. This trade adds a current three time defending scoring champ to a Top 10-20 All Time great who is still playing at a ridiculously high level and third player who is a Hall of Fame talent in his prime.

    It was inevitable and immediate that the Nets would suck. That's not even likely during the years of these draft choices.
    Last edited by RJKarl; 01-14-2021 at 07:31 PM.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Yep. And on top of that they're handling all of this to a first time head coach.
    Think Iím with Ph here generally.

    The Nets are going all in. Maybe it works in the window Durant has left with shaky legs. But they traded away some very good players and picks!

    I donít really care about super teams, especially not this one. Who even knows if itíll work?

  18. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by TownieDeac View Post
    Think Iím with Ph here generally.

    The Nets are going all in. Maybe it works in the window Durant has left with shaky legs. But they traded away some very good players and picks!

    I donít really care about super teams, especially not this one. Who even knows if itíll work?
    If this team works, Steve Nash should be named Emissary of Peace for the world.

    It has disaster written all over it. I think Harden and KD can absolutely get along. Kyrie is the problem.

  19. #299
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    I wish I didn't have to care about super teams, but except for teams with two top 5 players like Lebron and AD, super teams with three elite players are going to win a championship. Otherwise, you either have to get some or hope your young players grow into them.

    The Nets have two top 5 players as well. I wonder if they would have rather kept Allen and LeVert and traded Kyrie. I would have.

    Christian Wood is really good. I legit never heard of him until prepping for the fantasy draft. Crazy story. 25 years old. 6th team. Bounced back and forth from the G-League. Now he's a possible All-Star.

    Right now, the Spurs have to be thinking that Keldon Johnson has an elite player ceiling playing this well at 21 and he's not even a top option. That gives me some hope going forward. He's on a Kawhi-type trajectory.
    Last edited by PhDeac; 01-14-2021 at 11:01 PM.

  20. #300
    Christian Wood has a slight likeness to Scottie Pippen

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