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2021 Wake Forest Football Season

Roberson won't be moved. Skinnydeac to your statement about Roberson against zone: " Robertson recorded 340 receiving yards from finding a gap in zone coverage — No. 2 in the FBS. He averaged 7.6 after the catch vs. zone defense"

Morin is the interesting one because frankly I have no idea and I think it depends on the development of Ke'Shawn Williams. Your Z receivers are usually smaller, and quicker and you'll see from time to time(since they're a flanker) end up with their routes going over the middle like the slot would while your slot receiver ends up deeper and closer to the sideline. So that's where the staff feels like they can maximize Roberson, no sense in messing with what's broken if you already have plans for his routes to end up outside anyways.

I'll have a projected depth chart up tomorrow on BSD for the offense(and then defense Wednesday) but here's how I have the WRs right now:

I think Donald Stewart has/will earn the starting spot at the X receiver(Greene's position). He's not as fast as Donny obviously so that hurts. But he is a great route runner, can still get down the sideline and most importantly to me, he has the size that pressing him doesn't matter all that much at 6-4, 206. Think Jahmal Banks will back him up.

At Z I *think* AT Perry and Morin battle it out. Morin is better underneath and has more snaps, but Perry brings the straight-line speed in order to take some of the pressure off of Roberson and even the X receiver depending on the depth of the routes. Could just end up being a matter of what they want to do on that given day, do you want to use your height to your advantage for explosive plays or bank on the route running? Multiple ways to skin a cat here.

Thanks, Cam. You'd know way better than me, but the thought of Stewart & Perry outside doesn't inspire much confidence, and makes me think we'll see a lot of defenders up at the LOS (with a deep safety/Rover for help on Roberson).

Love Clawson, but have always been a bit disappointed he doesn't move his star receivers around more. The NFL loves guys who can play both inside/outside, and we seem to pigeon hole our best guys into one spot for their careers. I.e. why couldn't Hines play out wide to get on the field with Dortch? Roberson w/ Hinton? Sage did seem to move to the slot some, which was encouraging, but it sounds like that may have been a one-off? While they obviously didn't do a very good job of it last year (partly, I'm guessing, due to having Greene as a legit deep threat), it seems like it is/will be significantly easier for opposing DCs to scheme for a guy who's going to be lining up in the same spot every play (other than flipping formations), vs. having to account for someone who could line up anywhere in a 40 yard stretch of field.
 
I'd also like to see some orbit motion from the slot guys. Pre-snap in motion toward the QB, running behind the QB just after the snap. Maybe even hand off once a game. Just to give opposing D Coordinators one more thing to think about.
 
I'd also like to see some orbit motion from the slot guys. Pre-snap in motion toward the QB, running behind the QB just after the snap. Maybe even hand off once a game. Just to give opposing D Coordinators one more thing to think about.
I agree. I like winning as first option, but when we used the orbit successfully, that was enjoyable watching.
 
The only time Wake could run anything like an orbit or motion play is on the first play of a possession or short yardage. Everything they do is dictated by pace and reads. The linemen aren't in 3 point stances and sometimes allow the ends to get up field by design. If you run an orbit play, then you run right into the back of a tackle or you have an DE standing there waiting on you.

For trick play purposes, I think we are more likely to see a RB pitch it back to the QB after a handoff or a receiver catch a pass behind the los and throw down field. I just don't think we will see many orbits, reverses or trick plays at all.
 
The only time Wake could run anything like an orbit or motion play is on the first play of a possession or short yardage. Everything they do is dictated by pace and reads. The linemen aren't in 3 point stances and sometimes allow the ends to get up field by design. If you run an orbit play, then you run right into the back of a tackle or you have an DE standing there waiting on you.

For trick play purposes, I think we are more likely to see a RB pitch it back to the QB after a handoff or a receiver catch a pass behind the los and throw down field. I just don't think we will see many orbits, reverses or trick plays at all.

Wake has run very few plays that weren't the basic read option. I was speculating on a possible change of pace pla to give opposing DC's another thing to worry about.

As for DE's upfield, if the orbit is pure decoy, it may distract the DE from continuing to the QB. He may need to pause and consider a toss over his head. So does he need to take out the orbit WR?

Something to run say in the first set of downs in the second quarter. Mostly run it fake, but if the opposing defense fails to account for the orbiter....
 
Pop passes are even more effective and could seemingly easily be run as part of our offense. Most teams that operate out of shotgun (which is most these days) use pop passes as basically wide sweeps, but we never do.
 
Wake has run very few plays that weren't the basic read option. I was speculating on a possible change of pace pla to give opposing DC's another thing to worry about.

As for DE's upfield, if the orbit is pure decoy, it may distract the DE from continuing to the QB. He may need to pause and consider a toss over his head. So does he need to take out the orbit WR?

Something to run say in the first set of downs in the second quarter. Mostly run it fake, but if the opposing defense fails to account for the orbiter....

I think the way Wake runs it, when the DE gets way up field, the QB would keep and follow the RB into the hole left by the DE. Unfortunately, Hartman isn't the runner that Wolford, Hinton and Newman were.

I agree with tigerswood. CBS seems like the ideal RB to throw a quick pass in space. Just let him do the rest.
 
Well that too, but I was talking about the pop pass that's basically a jet sweep without the handoff to the WR or RB split out wide coming in motion in front of the QB as the ball is snapped. It's also nice that if it's mishandled, it results in an incompletion (and boosts the QB/WR passing yardage).
 
Thanks, Cam. You'd know way better than me, but the thought of Stewart & Perry outside doesn't inspire much confidence, and makes me think we'll see a lot of defenders up at the LOS (with a deep safety/Rover for help on Roberson).

Love Clawson, but have always been a bit disappointed he doesn't move his star receivers around more. The NFL loves guys who can play both inside/outside, and we seem to pigeon hole our best guys into one spot for their careers. I.e. why couldn't Hines play out wide to get on the field with Dortch? Roberson w/ Hinton? Sage did seem to move to the slot some, which was encouraging, but it sounds like that may have been a one-off? While they obviously didn't do a very good job of it last year (partly, I'm guessing, due to having Greene as a legit deep threat), it seems like it is/will be significantly easier for opposing DCs to scheme for a guy who's going to be lining up in the same spot every play (other than flipping formations), vs. having to account for someone who could line up anywhere in a 40 yard stretch of field.

Mismatches is really the key. One of the reasons Roberson is so successful is the fact that since he's a larger slot guy, he's too fast and good of a route runner for a LB or S to cover and too big for your typical slot corner to press. That advantage is severely negated moving him outside. Sage had 150 snaps in the slot in 2019 but 98 of them came in the first 4 games(Utah State, Rice, a not great UNC, and Elon), much easier to have mismatches there no matter how you line up than it is later in the year vs FSU(in a hurricane), VT, etc. Roberson just wasn't ready to play in 2019(he actually got snaps once sage and scotty went down) and no one was really touching the form the big 3 were in that year. For Dortch/Hines, speed or not you have so few advantages running out a 5'8 slot guy and a 5'10 outside receiver. Size isn't everything, but that's asking for trouble.

To your point, it took Sam Hartman having quite literally the worst ~14 snap stretch of his career for people to really stop it. I've thrown a few examples up on twitter where Ruggiero just says fuck it I'm going to run the same exact play twice and it work perfectly. There's obviously going to be concern from the fanbase missing Greene and I think it's extremely valid. In a "what have you done for me lately" view, AT has had injury issues, Stewart had the same at Stanford and then again last season, Morin is barely 5-11, and Jahmal Banks is in his second year and wasn't some top 150 recruit like Donnie was. I personally have less concerns about it in general given who I talked to during spring(not coaches). The rumblings were that Stewart was going to start anyways opposite Donnie because he was just lighting things up. AT when healthy is still good, his 2020 season paced over 12 games would be a 42 catch, 603 yard and 3 touchdown season. That's with him missing games too. Jahmal is the unknown for me, but that's one where I go Higgins has a pretty good hit rate on receivers. If guys are saying he's producing in spring ball, I'll trust that for now and wait till the fall camp notes.

I get people wanting orbit motions, trick plays, etc etc. A) I'm just happy to see them using the RB as a WR towards the end of the year and b) they don't really need that. What they need is just to be more consistent on the ground. Y/C before contact and EPA just show how inefficient they were running the ball last year and that's got to change. Once they can run the ball efficiently the entire offense becomes insane
 
Consistent ground game is definitely a key, if not the key. Watching the UNC game turn as they stacked the box and the running game went to zero was painful. Just think incorporating some wide sweeps/pop passes/additional screens would help keep the DE/LBs honest and potentially open up bigger holes in the middle.
 
I'd also like to see some orbit motion from the slot guys. Pre-snap in motion toward the QB, running behind the QB just after the snap. Maybe even hand off once a game. Just to give opposing D Coordinators one more thing to think about.
Running sideways in today's football is asking to punt.
 
Roberson is a special talent in the slot but he’ll be easy to stop unless we have two other threats to catch the ball.
 
Running sideways in today's football is asking to punt.

Those orbit wishes are just fond memories of Grobe/Calhoun. It is our highwater mark of offensive creativity in the face of challenges.

August optimism will give way to RPO frustration by late Sept/early October. I like the RPO, but don't think we should run it exclusively. We need to mix in quick hitting run plays to punish the defense for passively reading a play. Forcing the defense to react instead of read will make the RPO more effective. Then it becomes a chess match/guessing game for which we will do.
 
Those orbit wishes are just fond memories of Grobe/Calhoun. It is our highwater mark of offensive creativity in the face of challenges.

August optimism will give way to RPO frustration by late Sept/early October. I like the RPO, but don't think we should run it exclusively. We need to mix in quick hitting run plays to punish the defense for passively reading a play. Forcing the defense to react instead of read will make the RPO more effective. Then it becomes a chess match/guessing game for which we will do.
They actually did this on the goal line last year, and or inside the 15. If it worked for that, seems it could work for a first down at the 40.
 
My comments above about the orbit were more about getting some additional creativity into the Wake offense so the opposing D-coordinator's job becomes harder. Right now, it is simply trying to disguise what the players who are the read keys for Hartman are doing. Orbit is one play that came to mind that has been successful for Wake in the past. Maybe even just have Hartman step up tight under center and throw a quick out pass to a receiver.

Predictibility is the downfall of any offense. Run the same stuff often enough and D-coordinators will eventually figure out some way to stop it. We saw what Michigan State did to the RPO, particularly when it became one dimensional.
 
Those orbit wishes are just fond memories of Grobe/Calhoun. It is our highwater mark of offensive creativity in the face of challenges.

August optimism will give way to RPO frustration by late Sept/early October. I like the RPO, but don't think we should run it exclusively. We need to mix in quick hitting run plays to punish the defense for passively reading a play. Forcing the defense to react instead of read will make the RPO more effective. Then it becomes a chess match/guessing game for which we will do.

Remember when Grobe had us all giddy with excitement before the 2013 season with talks of a new and creative offense? We assumed we were going to see shades of the early Grobe years at Wake. I remember he held practices that were closed to the public and media to keep this newfound "incredible" offense a secret.

And...
Then we witness that offense in action vs Presbyterian game 1. I think the majority thought that we were just keeping BC on their toes for the following week and didn't want to expose our "extensive" playbook. Sadly, that offense vs Presby ended up being the secretive unstoppable offense that Grobe was alluding to in the the off-season.
 
/\ Yes. and that was the REAL surprise not any new offense wrinkles. At the time, was really hard to believe.
 
Was that the year, we split the FB out wide as WR and was always easily covered?
 
Was that the year, we split the FB out wide as WR and was always easily covered?

I think so lol. Also, we did those 5 foot splits on the o-line starting like week 6 after we abandoned that idiotic option offense. I remember it was so sad that we had tajh boyd talking to Campanaro and asking just what the hell we were doing on offense. That team should've been a bowl team, but it was hard to overcome those nonsensical offensive schemes for the first half of the season.
 
For those who don't like "running sideways," pre-snap movement of a wide receiver from one side of the formation to the other has been a great way to get a read on how the defense is playing pass coverage. If the DB's stay put, it is a way of overloading a zone on one side.

It's a simple addition that would increase the the possibilities the D would have to consider.
 
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