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Is it time to start wondering is there a "culture issue" with Wake Forest Football

The only culture issue that there is with Wake Forest Football exists in the fanbase and with a bunch of old dudes who think that offering a kid a scholarship means that kid should be forced to play for their alma mater for four or five years no matter what.
 
The only culture issue that there is with Wake Forest Football exists in the fanbase and with a bunch of old dudes who think that offering a kid a scholarship means that kid should be forced to play for their alma mater for four or five years no matter what.

Young dude here...I'm somewhere in between that take and that kids should be flying in and out of the portal every year.

If you're a coach and you take a flyer on a 2 or 3 star player, then spend tremendous time and resources in grooming the young athlete into a polished player with pro potential, and RIGHT before your team is slated for a breakout season, with said player slated to play a huge role, he takes his talents to what he perceives to be a better opportunity, I think that is shitty. There are ALWAYS extenuating circumstances, so don't get me wrong. But the general landscape of players leaving and joining programs once, sometimes twice or 3 times during their college career is smalltime and it'll destroy the college game.

I forgot who posted it yesterday, but most of the fun in following college sports is watching players develop and picking players you hope to watch for 3 or 4 seasons. If you lose the loyalty factor in college sports, then what do you really have? If a guy leaves for the NFL that's 100% acceptable 100% of the time, even if it's a Dortch situation, where another season could have improved his stock(potentially). I'm not talking about early NFL entrants...Just to make it clear.

Loyalty...The argument against that is employees bounce from job to job in the real world, so why can't college athletes. Well, maybe some do, but loyalty is still a factor in the workforce. Also, it's shortsighted to bounce around and not worry about the relationships you may or may not damage along the way. Lets say an employer gives a kid an opportunity out of college, after this kid has been turned down by every other interview he/she had. Then lets say that the employer invested resources, training classes, out of state training, company benefits, a competitive salary, etc...So the employer spends a year or 2 turning this green, 23 year old kid into a good {insert job title}...Then company B comes and offers him/her a 10% pay increase to join their team, even though they had nothing to do with the development of said employee, and weren't willing to take a risk on them right out of college...Maybe I have an old school of thought, but I'm staying with my employer who saw potential in me. I'm staying with the team who trained me and he has given me an opportunity for growth and advancement.

Loyalty is dead and therefore college sports are watered down.
 
Clawson--a gentlemanly version of Bill Bellichek--is too tough on the college boys? Not so. The majority of players who could enter the portal do not. Those who do, do for for specific personal and potentially professional reasons.
We replaced Sage with Roberson. We replaced Newman with Hartman with good results. KWIII can be replaced as well. Again, and this is stated a lot, "next man up." Just ask an NFL pro, John Wolford or Kendall Hinton (who returned from the portal btw).
 
Young dude here...I'm somewhere in between that take and that kids should be flying in and out of the portal every year.

If you're a coach and you take a flyer on a 2 or 3 star player, then spend tremendous time and resources in grooming the young athlete into a polished player with pro potential, and RIGHT before your team is slated for a breakout season, with said player slated to play a huge role, he takes his talents to what he perceives to be a better opportunity, I think that is shitty. There are ALWAYS extenuating circumstances, so don't get me wrong. But the general landscape of players leaving and joining programs once, sometimes twice or 3 times during their college career is smalltime and it'll destroy the college game.

I forgot who posted it yesterday, but most of the fun in following college sports is watching players develop and picking players you hope to watch for 3 or 4 seasons. If you lose the loyalty factor in college sports, then what do you really have? If a guy leaves for the NFL that's 100% acceptable 100% of the time, even if it's a Dortch situation, where another season could have improved his stock(potentially). I'm not talking about early NFL entrants...Just to make it clear.

Loyalty...The argument against that is employees bounce from job to job in the real world, so why can't college athletes. Well, maybe some do, but loyalty is still a factor in the workforce. Also, it's shortsighted to bounce around and not worry about the relationships you may or may not damage along the way. Lets say an employer gives a kid an opportunity out of college, after this kid has been turned down by every other interview he/she had. Then lets say that the employer invested resources, training classes, out of state training, company benefits, a competitive salary, etc...So the employer spends a year or 2 turning this green, 23 year old kid into a good {insert job title}...Then company B comes and offers him/her a 10% pay increase to join their team, even though they had nothing to do with the development of said employee, and weren't willing to take a risk on them right out of college...Maybe I have an old school of thought, but I'm staying with my employer who saw potential in me. I'm staying with the team who trained me and he has given me an opportunity for growth and advancement.

Loyalty is dead and therefore college sports are watered down.

I agree with you, the free agency of college sports will kill it. That being said you can’t reasonably expect amateur athletes to be tied to a university for 4-5 year without being paid. Yes they get compensated, but not in the way that they choose. So either start paying these kids and sign a contract with them that stipulates the rules and compensation for transferring (His first school m should get a something for releasing his player rights) or just end college sports. I can live with either.
 
Eh I think you guys are overblowing the issue. The vast majority of players won’t enter the transfer portal (because most of them will like their coaches and teammates). And most of the players who do enter the portal will be grad transfers who should be free to go where they want anyway. Players shopping like free agents will be the exception, not the rule.

If KWIII wants to return that would be awesome but even if he doesn’t I’m pretty pumped for our offense next year.
 
I agree with you, the free agency of college sports will kill it. That being said you can’t reasonably expect amateur athletes to be tied to a university for 4-5 year without being paid. Yes they get compensated, but not in the way that they choose. So either start paying these kids and sign a contract with them that stipulates the rules and compensation for transferring (His first school m should get a something for releasing his player rights) or just end college sports. I can live with either.

I agree with this too. Expecting kids to sign a 4/5 year contract out of high school and be shackled to stay in a situation where they aren't happy isn't fair to the kid.

My solution would be that if a kid signs with a program, they have to honor 3 years with that school. After those 3 years they can either enter the draft, transfer to a powerhouse or transfer to a lesser division where they can get more playing time. And I think this should go both ways...If a coach/university offers the kid, they can't run them out and recruit over them. The loyalty should go both ways and the school should honor that scholarship, regardless of talent level on the field.

But yeah, my dream scenario wouldn't ever work and wouldn't happen at this point in the game so yeah, Brasky, we should pay them, sign contracts and move on with it.
 
Eh I think you guys are overblowing the issue. The vast majority of players won’t enter the transfer portal (because most of them will like their coaches and teammates). And most of the players who do enter the portal will be grad transfers who should be free to go where they want anyway. Players shopping like free agents will be the exception, not the rule.

If KWIII wants to return that would be awesome but even if he doesn’t I’m pretty pumped for our offense next year.

I hope you're right, but the transfer portal is new and it seems to be very popular with these kids/parents. It allows the player to have one foot in and one foot out, even on NSD. So there really isn't any commitment at all.

But yeah, I'm still looking forward to next season.
 
Surratt is much closer to Jesse Bates in terms of NFL readiness than Greg Dortch. Dortch is really the only wideout who left to go pro who could've benefited from more games. And one person does not make a trend.

Playing more college football wouldn't have turned Dortch into an NFL receiver.
 
Young dude here...I'm somewhere in between that take and that kids should be flying in and out of the portal every year.

If you're a coach and you take a flyer on a 2 or 3 star player, then spend tremendous time and resources in grooming the young athlete into a polished player with pro potential, and RIGHT before your team is slated for a breakout season, with said player slated to play a huge role, he takes his talents to what he perceives to be a better opportunity, I think that is shitty. There are ALWAYS extenuating circumstances, so don't get me wrong. But the general landscape of players leaving and joining programs once, sometimes twice or 3 times during their college career is smalltime and it'll destroy the college game.

I forgot who posted it yesterday, but most of the fun in following college sports is watching players develop and picking players you hope to watch for 3 or 4 seasons. If you lose the loyalty factor in college sports, then what do you really have? If a guy leaves for the NFL that's 100% acceptable 100% of the time, even if it's a Dortch situation, where another season could have improved his stock(potentially). I'm not talking about early NFL entrants...Just to make it clear.

Loyalty...The argument against that is employees bounce from job to job in the real world, so why can't college athletes. Well, maybe some do, but loyalty is still a factor in the workforce. Also, it's shortsighted to bounce around and not worry about the relationships you may or may not damage along the way. Lets say an employer gives a kid an opportunity out of college, after this kid has been turned down by every other interview he/she had. Then lets say that the employer invested resources, training classes, out of state training, company benefits, a competitive salary, etc...So the employer spends a year or 2 turning this green, 23 year old kid into a good {insert job title}...Then company B comes and offers him/her a 10% pay increase to join their team, even though they had nothing to do with the development of said employee, and weren't willing to take a risk on them right out of college...Maybe I have an old school of thought, but I'm staying with my employer who saw potential in me. I'm staying with the team who trained me and he has given me an opportunity for growth and advancement.

Loyalty is dead and therefore college sports are watered down.

Agree sorta/kinda, but while coaches do take a "flyers" on 2-3 stars, it's b/c the 4-5 stars either turned them down or aren't a realistic target for a particular university. For every 2-3 star Wake signs, we'd gladly "trade up" to a 4-5 star (assuming no character issues; to Wake and Clawson's credit I do think that is still factored in) if they'd accept our offer.
 
Clawson took a flyer on a MAC recruit and KWIII gave him more return on his investment than anyone could have possibly expected. If someone decides that a place is not for them, then, they should be free to go. Creating a scenario that would keep someone that doesn't want to be somewhere for 3 years seems to be indentured servitude at a minimum.
 
Clawson took a flyer on a MAC recruit and KWIII gave him more return on his investment than anyone could have possibly expected. If someone decides that a place is not for them, then, they should be free to go. Creating a scenario that would keep someone that doesn't want to be somewhere for 3 years seems to be indentured servitude at a minimum.

Well said. It’s on the coaching staff to keep the players happy and motivated. They aren’t going to win otherwise anyway.
 
Clawson--a gentlemanly version of Bill Bellichek--is too tough on the college boys? Not so. The majority of players who could enter the portal do not. Those who do, do for for specific personal and potentially professional reasons.
We replaced Sage with Roberson. We replaced Newman with Hartman with good results. KWIII can be replaced as well. Again, and this is stated a lot, "next man up." Just ask an NFL pro, John Wolford or Kendall Hinton (who returned from the portal btw).

Newman>Hartman

Sage>Roberson

Barclay>Walker>Colburn>CBS

Key to those backs is the first 3 have breakawy speed, whereas CBS does not and we plod.
 
Who said KWIII should be forced to stay at Wake ?
 
Newman>Hartman

Sage>Roberson

Barclay>Walker>Colburn>CBS

Key to those backs is the first 3 have breakawy speed, whereas CBS does not and we plod.

Also, we replaced Hinton with Roberson, not Sage. We replaced Sage with Stewart, Groulx, and Perry (a significant step down from Sage), then finally settling on moving Morin outside. And Roberson had an incredible year - commensurate to Hinton.
 
I would put a different process in place
Once you sign, you are committed to a school until you have attended one academic semester at that school. Then you may transfer anytime until your entering class peers complete two academic years. You can be immediately eligible at the new school.

After that, you can transfer, but must sit out a year, until you graduate. Once you receive a degree, you can again transfer and be immediately eligible at your new school. If you have remaining eligibility.

In addition, if the head coach leaves for any reason, the new head coach gets a 30 day window during which players cannot leave. After that window, players have until the end of the academic year (or June 1) to decide. If they leave, they can be immediately eligible at the new school.

Players can leave for professional opportunities anytime they meet the requirements of the profession.

IMHO, a system like this would balance the effort coaches put into recruiting with the fact that the recruited high school athletes are teenagers and may find that their initial choice was a mistake. After two years, they should have a pretty good idea where they stand and then, by staying, it seems reasonable to lock them in more tightly until graduation. That way the student-athlete fulfills the student part of the deal.
 
I would put a different process in place
Once you sign, you are committed to a school until you have attended one academic semester at that school. Then you may transfer anytime until your entering class peers complete two academic years. You can be immediately eligible at the new school.

After that, you can transfer, but must sit out a year, until you graduate. Once you receive a degree, you can again transfer and be immediately eligible at your new school. If you have remaining eligibility.

In addition, if the head coach leaves for any reason, the new head coach gets a 30 day window during which players cannot leave. After that window, players have until the end of the academic year (or June 1) to decide. If they leave, they can be immediately eligible at the new school.

Players can leave for professional opportunities anytime they meet the requirements of the profession.

IMHO, a system like this would balance the effort coaches put into recruiting with the fact that the recruited high school athletes are teenagers and may find that their initial choice was a mistake. After two years, they should have a pretty good idea where they stand and then, by staying, it seems reasonable to lock them in more tightly until graduation. That way the student-athlete fulfills the student part of the deal.


This is entirely too logical and makes way too much sense for the NCAA to ever entertain such an idea. You need to be more of the Rube Goldberg mindset here. :)
 
The only culture issue that there is with Wake Forest Football exists in the fanbase and with a bunch of old dudes who think that offering a kid a scholarship means that kid should be forced to play for their alma mater for four or five years no matter what.

If a school is spending money and time on a player, most fans want to see that player stay and play well.
 
I imagine there is a culture issue for athletes at Wake Forest. The demographics of the typical "Wake Forest student" is much different than the student demographic at most colleges and universities. It's a tough fit for those don't meet the profile.
 
Eh I think you guys are overblowing the issue. The vast majority of players won’t enter the transfer portal (because most of them will like their coaches and teammates). And most of the players who do enter the portal will be grad transfers who should be free to go where they want anyway. Players shopping like free agents will be the exception, not the rule.

If KWIII wants to return that would be awesome but even if he doesn’t I’m pretty pumped for our offense next year.

I'm not really worried about players getting frustrated and/or deciding its their time to leave the program. If you don't like it here, you should be free to go.

What worries me most in this new world is shady programs and coaches that will be in the ear of our best players, every year. Georgia 100% made contact with Newman before he entered the portal and let him know he would have a place there. Based on the timing, I suspect someone has done that with Walker too. If the new normal is having to play defense on all your best players, re-recruiting them every year, from shady agents and boosters, college football is gonna suck.
 
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