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Thread: Capitalism

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    pure socialism, like pure capitalism won't work.
    Maybe we should try fascism.
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by wakelaw13 View Post
    I'm a little confused by this thread. Fair regulation of the capitalist system is certainly necessary, but what's the alternative?

    I represent people from all walks of life, and as part of my job I often become familiar with the type of work they perform and how it pays. I also travel across the state for that work, although it's primarily the eastern half. I have come to a couple conclusions.

    First, I think the biggest divide in this country is urban v. rural. Political ideology is one thing, your personal reality is another. It isn't difficult to convince people living in rural counties that the country is going to hell when their shithole town died years ago. It isn't hard to convince them that an elite few control everything when that's most likely true in their town. And if you can play up inherent biases on the way to convincing them it's the other party's fault, even better.

    Second, labor is incredibly undervalued, and it's getting worse. The divide between the haves and have-nots is growing. That's a problem for everyone. My dad was the first in his family to go to college. His parents worked in factories, and put him through a private northern university that's of roughly equal quality to Wake. Today, two factory workers are barely feeding their kids. I'm not an economics expert, but I know enough to understand some of the reasons for that change. What is clear is that the divide has deepened and it has resulted in a lot of angry people. It's why I understood a vote for Trump in 2016. I did not condone it, I don't think it was smart, but I understood the sense of despair that drove people to him.

    The answer isn't ending capitalism. The answer is common sense reforms that alter capitalism's unfettered path. The answer is that our government must continuously work to prop up the middle class, because without that intervention it goes away.
    From the Progressive Era through the 1960s there were many such "common sense" reforms to fix many of the problems with the capitalist system. Despite being called a socialist and a communist by his critics, FDR once said that his goal with the New Deal wasn't to destroy capitalism, but rather to save it from itself via more government regulations and monitoring and the creation of a social safety net. One can argue that those reforms actually saved capitalism during the Depression, when public faith in businessmen, Wall Street, bankers, and other capitalist features hit rock bottom. However, starting in the 1960s conservatives began to steadily chip away at the regulated capitalist state that had been created - conservatives from Goldwater to (especially) Reagan argued that even these limited restrictions on capitalism were socialistic and needed to be abolished. And starting with Reagan they gradually did strip away a good deal of governmental regulation and monitoring of corporations, repeatedly lowered corporate taxes and taxes on the wealthy, made cutbacks in the social safety net, and so on. In retrospect, maybe that wasn't such a good idea, but here we are.
    Last edited by Highland Deac; 02-01-2021 at 10:11 PM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by wakelaw13 View Post
    So once again, whatís the alternative? Itís not socialism.
    "There is no alternative!"
    semi-aquatic like otters be.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by wakelaw13 View Post
    So once again, whatís the alternative? Itís not socialism.
    Mercantilism?

  5. #45
    It's surprising to realize how difficult it can be to imagine a system not based primarily on the personal accumulation of wealth and capital.
    semi-aquatic like otters be.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by texasdeac View Post
    Mercantilism?
    Feudalism?
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
    Maybe we should try fascism.
    Where did that come from?

    Pure socialism will dramatically inhibit innovation. Pure capitalism grossly harms the environment, screws employees and deepens class differences.

    A mix of the two is what will work the best until man evolves.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    Where did that come from?

    Pure socialism will dramatically inhibit innovation. Pure capitalism grossly harms the environment, screws employees and deepens class differences.

    A mix of the two is what will work the best until man evolves.
    Iím just spit balling alternatives to capitalism.
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  9. #49
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    One of the biggest issues are borders. Every year, borders become less and less meaningful. As this grows, I think economies could become fairer.

    I'd guess the biggest issue over the next fifty years will be automation and computerization. Hundreds of millions of jobs will become obsolete. How they are replaced will likely shape the world.

  10. #50
    Capitalism, along with the strength of our structure of government and the Constitutionís (and state constitutionsí) focus on individual liberty, is the foundation of American exceptionalism. These three pillars of governance set the stage for human flourishing in a way that has not occurred at any other time or place in the history of humanity.

  11. #51
    Dickie Hemric
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    Quote Originally Posted by TenaciousKory View Post
    "There is no alternative!"
    Correct.

    And the socialist alternative has spectacularly and miserably failed everywhere it has been implemented.

    So, this is where we are.

  12. #52
    Dickie Hemric
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
    Maybe we should try fascism.
    Fascism grew out of socialism. It is a variety of socialism. Its founders in Italy were virtually all socialists.

    Fascism has already been tried and the results are dramatically discouraging.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by sailordeac View Post
    Fascism grew out of socialism. It is a variety of socialism. Its founders in Italy were virtually all socialists.

    Fascism has already been tried and the results are dramatically discouraging.
    I donít know man. From a public transportation perspective I hear it was a pretty good system of government. Maybe we should check it out.
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  14. #54
    Dickie Hemric
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
    I donít know man. From a public transportation perspective I hear it was a pretty good system of government. Maybe we should check it out.
    You sound like a guy who will really enjoy the infofascists at Facebook and Twitter and the cancel culture fascists in the corporate world and the universities.

  15. #55
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    Capitalism

    Have we considered trying friendship as a system?
    Last edited by Deacfreak07; 02-02-2021 at 09:37 AM.

  16. #56
    american exceptionalism is such a load of horseshit.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by sailordeac View Post
    You sound like a guy who will really enjoy the infofascists at Facebook and Twitter and the cancel culture fascists in the corporate world and the universities.
    Do they have good public transportation in those places? If so, you are correct that I might really enjoy them!
    Birds are real.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by WakeBored View Post
    Capitalism, along with the strength of our structure of government and the Constitutionís (and state constitutionsí) focus on individual liberty, is the foundation of American exceptionalism. These three pillars of governance set the stage for human flourishing in a way that has not occurred at any other time or place in the history of humanity.
    9 years olds getting pepper sprayed.

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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by sailordeac View Post
    Fascism grew out of socialism. It is a variety of socialism. Its founders in Italy were virtually all socialists.

    Fascism has already been tried and the results are dramatically discouraging.
    No matter how many times you want to tell this ignorant lie, it will never make it true. Fascism is the most extreme RW philosophy that existed in the 20th century and beyond. To say otherwise is brainwashed ignorance.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by WakeBored View Post
    Capitalism, along with the strength of our structure of government and the Constitutionís (and state constitutionsí) focus on individual liberty, is the foundation of American exceptionalism. These three pillars of governance set the stage for human flourishing in a way that has not occurred at any other time or place in the history of humanity.
    The religious suck your own dick worship of American exceptionalism is so lame. Itís a stupid trump card point I expect from MAGA folks who have no fucking clue or capacity for critical thought.

    Every super awesome society like Egypt, Greece, Rome, British Empire etc was the super awesomest best in the history of the world...until it wasnít. Just because America has been basically unchallenged in world superiority for like 100 years doesnít mean that is a guarantee to continue.

    Do you think that maybe some other things have also helped build American prosperity such as an embarrassment of natural resources that were geographically isolated and untouched for millennia while the rest of the world progressed? We could just...walk right up and have them after scattering the few current residents. Or that those other societies destroyed themselves so thoroughly with two world wars that never reached our shores leaving an enormous void for us?

    It seems like a huge blind spot to credit Republican religion while not considering any other factors, and to assume that unchanging faith in that religion will 100% guarantee future success. And youíre supposed to be the party of business, good luck running a business with that mindset.

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