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Thread: The Filibuster - Kill It for the Good of Democracy

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by deaconson View Post
    How many votes has the senate taken under his "leadership" ? He has made every effort to keep the gop from going on the record for any policy votes.
    He has something like to Top 8 annual totals of blocking legislation in US history. Anyone who believes he will do anything but obstruct without organized, national calling him out on EVERYTHING he blocks is living in land of leprechauns, unicorns and raining Skittles.

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  4. #84
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    Manchin has little to no chance of getting re-elected in 2024. His best shot would be to get rid of the filibuster and work with Dems to pass an ambitious agenda that would make Dems more popular across the board and perhaps that rising tide would help him in WV.

    Manchin is turning down a lot of power and opportunity to maintain the status quo.

  5. #85
    One idea I saw online was not to kill the filibuster, but change the rule to actually make the obstructionists hold the floor and give their speeches night and day. Seems to me that the ideal place to try this would be the voting rights act bill passed by the House. Put that up there and let McConnell and Co. talk themselves hoarse for a week or so on why Americans shouldn't be allowed to vote by mail, while Dems pound them with ads on why the GOP is pulling this stunt simply to make it harder for people to vote. I think it would end up being pretty embarrassing for the Pubs. Right now "filibustering" is way too easy and painless for the filibustering party. If you want to override majority rule, you ought to at least have to work for it. Manchin could go along with this without breaking his recent vow not to kill the filibuster.

  6. #86
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    Again, it’s not “painful” for Cruz, Hawley, and that ilk to talk for hours with their loyal Pub base watching.

    And plenty of people would blame the Democrats for putting Republicans through such a wasteful exercise we know they’ll complete.

  7. #87
    Its also not embarrassing for republicans to spout their nonsense. The fully embrace the lies, misinformation, and self serving nature of their "policy" positions. (AKA stay in power by any means necessary).

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Again, it’s not “painful” for Cruz, Hawley, and that ilk to talk for hours with their loyal Pub base watching.

    And plenty of people would blame the Democrats for putting Republicans through such a wasteful exercise we know they’ll complete.
    Quote Originally Posted by deaconson View Post
    Its also not embarrassing for republicans to spout their nonsense. The fully embrace the lies, misinformation, and self serving nature of their "policy" positions. (AKA stay in power by any means necessary).
    both of these statements are true, but if we assume that Joe Manchin is going to stick to his promise not to vote down the filibuster, this is probably least bad option. The voting rights legislation is very popular with Americans. The pubs will be filibustering for their primaries. It will not be a good look to the 5 swing voters who still exist, and more important will provide ammunition for Dem GOTV efforts in 2022.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deacon923 View Post
    both of these statements are true, but if we assume that Joe Manchin is going to stick to his promise not to vote down the filibuster, this is probably least bad option. The voting rights legislation is very popular with Americans. The pubs will be filibustering for their primaries. It will not be a good look to the 5 swing voters who still exist, and more important will provide ammunition for Dem GOTV efforts in 2022.
    I see what you’re saying. But I wouldn’t want to make popular voting rights legislation all about Republican opposition. Giving Republicans hours and hours to drone on about fake voter fraud nonsense wouldn’t help to actually get anything done.

    The Manchin perspective seems to be if 60 Senators can’t find a way to agree on something, it shouldn’t be done.

  10. #90
    We need to change the rules so that each party gets a limited number of filibusters per session. They would have to be a lot more judicious about applying the tool. Filibuster is a made up concept, it’s not some sort of law of nature that can only be followed or abandoned, which means we have all the power to revise the concept with out killing it entirely. If each party had 15 filibusters (or 20 or what ever) per congress they could use them on judges or laws or what ever and they would use them on things that really mattered to them. The frivolity of filibustering anything and everything would go away.
    Birds are real.

  11. #91
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    I don’t know. Maybe Manchin could get behind that. It’s a silly way to amend a silly tradition.

  12. #92
    as a legislator, your job is to create legislation, debate it, and vote on it. not delay or deny something being voted on. Mitch McConnell is a cancer upon America for the way he's molded the Senate into a body of inaction.

    ties back to Cawthorn saying he staffed up for communication, not legislation.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by BarcaDeac View Post
    as a legislator, your job is to create legislation, debate it, and vote on it. not delay or deny something being voted on. Mitch McConnell is a cancer upon America for the way he's molded the Senate into a body of inaction.

    ties back to Cawthorn saying he staffed up for communication, not legislation.
    Which is exactly what conservatives want - a legislature that doesn't actually legislate or do very much, and any even mildly progressive legislation or reforms get blocked. And a court system packed with originalists who will block any progressive initiatives. The GOP learned its lessons well after watching liberals pass sweeping progressive legislation in the 1960s - Medicare and Medicaid, civil and voting rights laws, etc. And watching Earl Warren's Supreme Court make landmark reform and progressive rulings. They've learned how to clog up the system so that nothing gets done (except for their agenda, of course).

  14. #94
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    But even when Republicans run the government, the only thing that happens in Congress is a big tax cut and judges.

    That is their agenda though.

  15. #95
    The filibuster serves at least two purposes that immediately come to mind.

    First, it protects each party from their extreme wings. The party in power can blame the other party for not enacting extreme agendas. Most people are center-right or -left, not at the extremes, and enactment of an extreme agenda would likely cause a backlash against the party in power, when either the difficulty adapting (see below) or the flaws in the extreme agenda rear their head.

    Second, it protects the country from lurching from extreme right to extreme left every 4-8 years or so. This promotes stability in the law, which is good for the people and businesses who have to arrange their practices in accordance with it. Also, if nothing else, centrism reduces compliance costs, and allows businesses to focus on their raision d’etre — making profits for their shareholders — and not paying asshole lawyers to explain to them about the new regulations they have to learn to comply with.

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  17. #97
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    Junebug, how many other federal legislative bodies around the world have the filibuster? How do those without the filibuster manage to function without it? How many state legislative bodies have it?

    Businesses pay asshole lobbyists to change regulations anyway.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by WakeBored View Post
    The filibuster serves at least two purposes that immediately come to mind.

    First, it protects each party from their extreme wings. The party in power can blame the other party for not enacting extreme agendas. Most people are center-right or -left, not at the extremes, and enactment of an extreme agenda would likely cause a backlash against the party in power, when either the difficulty adapting (see below) or the flaws in the extreme agenda rear their head.

    Second, it protects the country from lurching from extreme right to extreme left every 4-8 years or so. This promotes stability in the law, which is good for the people and businesses who have to arrange their practices in accordance with it. Also, if nothing else, centrism reduces compliance costs, and allows businesses to focus on their raision d’etre — making profits for their shareholders — and not paying asshole lawyers to explain to them about the new regulations they have to learn to comply with.
    You can achieve those objectives without the filibuster or with an altered version of the filibuster. It’s not a divinely inspired sacred rule. It can actually be pretty easily changed, relatively speaking.
    Birds are real.

  19. #99

  20. #100
    Agreed entirely. How many votes have the democrats won based on decorum and playing fair? I mean that only in the sense that pubs will complain about being railroaded if legislation like this passes. Democrats need to fucking embrace being the party that won this election by 7 million+ votes and being the party of expanding the right to conveniently and securely vote to all Americans, even if the GOP screams like banshees the entire time. They cannot rally enough people via rage against voting to offset the increased scope of the electorate that would come from early voting and ubiquitous mailed ballets (I'd guess). Like Obamacare, once people have access to it, I doubt taking it away will be as easy. It's hilariously easy to vote here in WA state. No wonder our turnout in King County this year was 86.6%.

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