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WF at the Irish: EARLY START Tuesday -- 5 pm ACCN

berneses said:
Pretty ugly performance. Manning and Bz like. Forbes somehow has to find a decent big for next year. Unlike Bz and Manning, Forbes generally blames himself publicly and not the players.
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Seems he pretty clearly blamed some players in his post-game comments.
 
RJKarl said:
Without a good, immediately ready-to-play big next year, we will have another awful season in 21-22.
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Having Dubose back would be nice but the glaring need is Ingraham. What is an update? Will he be back....ever?
 
Well it was an early start on a Tuesday no less, so................
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Plenty of blame to go around and Forbes is honest in that he says the players are not competing and it is on him to get them to play harder/smarter team ball. I think we do have a few players that are one dimensional and do not add much of anything unless they score. He did say scoring is great but as a player you need to do all the other things as well (especially if the shots are not falling). Right on the money if you ask me. I think he clearly points out that this attitude was here when he got hired. Will take some time to cleanse the Manning culture.
 
80deacon said:
Having Dubose back would be nice but the glaring need is Ingraham. What is an update? Will he be back....ever?
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Ingraham was declared out for the season. I don't think we will know more until the end of the school year.
 
Just digging through the box score a bit...

Okpomo had zero rebounds in 15 minutes
Oguama had zero fouls after the 2 that he had in the first 3 minutes of the game... He needs to stop with the quick exits
Williamson played 38 minutes... Nobody else over 25
10 players with 10+ minutes
Jalen Johnson only played 12 minutes... I'd have liked to see him on the floor more than that, especially when Jonah Antonio was 0-5 from 3 in 16 minutes

As an aside, I really hate the posts about needing to cleanse the program of Manning's influence when it's February. That blame goes to Forbes at this point. However, when Forbes talks about players needing to do other things beyond scoring, I feel like he's talking directly to Mucius and Massoud (and probably Neath). Because I don't think he's talking about Williamson, Whitt, and Oguama... And those 6 players were the top 6 in minutes last night. I guess he could also be talking about Antonio and Johnson... Both have been losing minutes to Whitt lately.
 
The bar is set higher for Mucius than anyone else. Massoud is only capable of shooting 3’s right now, but Mucius has the total package when he’s focused. It’s a tough line to toe between hero ball and team ball sometimes, but I’m sure Forbes would like to see him take control of the offense in ways other than just jacking up 3’s. Attack more to collapse defenses, set stronger picks and work harder to get other teammates open.

We pass the ball well, but we don’t have a lot of guys that can dribble with purpose. Even if it’s just one hard dribble toward the basket and a kick, it’s going to make the defense react. A lot of that is only having 2 perimeter players (Williamson and Mucius) who can create their own offense, and offense for others. Williamson has been a problem for opposing defenses while Mucius has largely just lurked around the 3 point line waiting for good passing to get him open. Obviously that’s what Massoud has been doing as well, but it’s more frustrating when Mucius does it bc we all know what he is capable of.

He’s had a lot to adjust to between the coaching change and playing out of position both with less practice than usual, but it comes with the territory when you’re as talented as he is.
 
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Start Okpomo and bring in Ody after the first 3-4 minutes, to avoid early foul trouble.

During Covid, a plane trip to northern Indiana, freezing to death, leaving the campus bubble, extra protocols, these guys are not talented enough to overcome the mental (it must be exhausting) part of that, right now, and win a road conference game on sheer talent gap over ND (which we do not have). These are not professionals.

Driving over to Raleigh, or even Durham - we will play better in a 'normal' season, than a plane trip to (boring, cold, lame ass) Pittsburgh, Indiana or wherever, and especially so during Covid times.
 
DeacsATS said:
Just digging through the box score a bit...

Okpomo had zero rebounds in 15 minutes
Oguama had zero fouls after the 2 that he had in the first 3 minutes of the game... He needs to stop with the quick exits
Williamson played 38 minutes... Nobody else over 25
10 players with 10+ minutes
Jalen Johnson only played 12 minutes... I'd have liked to see him on the floor more than that, especially when Jonah Antonio was 0-5 from 3 in 16 minutes

As an aside, I really hate the posts about needing to cleanse the program of Manning's influence when it's February. That blame goes to Forbes at this point. However, when Forbes talks about players needing to do other things beyond scoring, I feel like he's talking directly to Mucius and Massoud (and probably Neath). Because I don't think he's talking about Williamson, Whitt, and Oguama... And those 6 players were the top 6 in minutes last night. I guess he could also be talking about Antonio and Johnson... Both have been losing minutes to Whitt lately.
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when you are a late hire and were closed down for an extended period surely there is some carry over from Manning's last season. I think we have seen an improvement in ball movement on offense and defense positioning which are the x's and o's but I think we are talking about the mental aspect.
This is where there is still a Manning hangover. Most players are Manning's and it certainly will take Forbes more time getting everyone on the same page as far as giving full effort for the benefit of the team.
 
80deacon said:
Having Dubose back would be nice but the glaring need is Ingraham. What is an update? Will he be back....ever?
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The glaring need is someone who plays Ingraham's position. Maybe that's Ingraham, but not convinced when he feasts on Del State and Longwood.
 
saus21 said:
when you are a late hire and were closed down for an extended period surely there is some carry over from Manning's last season. I think we have seen an improvement in ball movement on offense and defense positioning which are the x's and o's but I think we are talking about the mental aspect.
This is where there is still a Manning hangover. Most players are Manning's and it certainly will take Forbes more time getting everyone on the same page as far as giving full effort for the benefit of the team.
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You realize 4 players of what's been a 10-player rotation are Manning's, right?
 
Wait are we having a meltdown over last nights loss?

In that case, Forbes has done a damn good job of raising expectations already.
 
This wasn't some horrible game from start to finish - we staged a nice comeback in the first half to tie it, and if I remember that 3 pointer they hit to close out the half was like a beyond NBA heave when they almost had a shot-clock violation. We really were playing solid and keeping it close despite poor shooting on a lot of good looks.

But I think Ph said it best - that opening 5 minutes of the 2nd half was probably our worst basketball of the year. We start with Neath making a pathetic defensive wave at a 3 pointer. Next Massoud plays matador that results in a dunk. Mucius gave up consecutive buckets plus a foul, we tried putting in Jalen and he immediately dropped behind a screen to give up another wide open 3. After we tied it up, we went scoreless for 6 minutes while giving up 19 points. Ody's 2 buckets were the only points we scored in over a quarter of the game, which is pretty incredible.

This team will likely struggle all year to find the rotating hot hand each game, assuming there's one to find. They can't take 6 minutes off on the defensive end against anyone decent and hope to weather the inherent dry spells.
 
Bill Russell once said basketball is a game of runs. Your team has a run, the other team has a run. Winning is having longer and bigger runs.
 
CONeill said:
You realize 4 players of what's been a 10-player rotation are Manning's, right?
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Well my point is it takes more than a couple of months to establish a culture. Really the only guy Forbes brought with him is arguably their best player and does a little bit of everything on the court and that is Davien. Just think the Manning guys disappear at times (with possible exception of Oquama when he stays out of foul trouble) and don't check all the boxes game in and game out. Whether it is just 4 out of ten, those 4 are getting alot of minutes. I think the only Forbes guys are Williamson, Johnson and Antonio. I could be wrong on that.
 
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