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Deacs at Covid-Ravaged BC: Wednesday 7 pm ACCN

PhDeac said:
I'm optimistic that a healthy Ody, Okpomo, and Ingraham will bring out the best in all of them for 40 minutes next year. We'll get 15 fouls, maximum energy on both sides of the court, and Forbes can choose offense or defense and the hot hand. Plus we can settle with Mucius and Massoud at the 4.
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Agree. That'd be ideal. Could even get two of them on the court at once against teams with multiple bigs (like UNC & ND this year).

My comment earlier about being impressed with Ian was about his post-game interview. The guy has such a positive energy. Seems like an ideal teammate (Ody is the same way).

I know we'd like to upgrade the talent as soon as possible, but I think there would be definite advantages to bringing back Dubose for another year. I feel similarly about Antonio & Johnson, but they feel less necessary w/ McCray & Hildreth coming in. Especially if the goal is to really take a step in Year 3 of Forbes.
 
The next two steps for Ody are to be less mechanical before making a move and learning how to draw a double team and passing out of it. He will turn the ball over during his learning curve. Everyone does. But he needs to do that.
 
Love Ody and his potential. He has a bad habit of bringing the ball below his waist after offensive rebounds. That leads to TOs. Catch the ball high and keep it high. Hate UNC, but starting with Dean and continuing with those that followed, their bigs always keep the ball above their head, makes it much harder to strip and leads to far more foul calls on the other team.
 
Pilchard said:
Love Ody and his potential. He has a bad habit of bringing the ball below his waist after offensive rebounds. That leads to TOs. Catch the ball high and keep it high. Hate UNC, but starting with Dean and continuing with those that followed, their bigs always keep the ball above their head, makes it much harder to strip and leads to far more foul calls on the other team.
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It's an awful habit for Ody and he does it all the time. Agree about UNC, Sam Perkins was amazing in this regard. Don't we have a big man coach, some giant foreign dude with a crazy beard.
 
Pilchard said:
Love Ody and his potential. He has a bad habit of bringing the ball below his waist after offensive rebounds. That leads to TOs. Catch the ball high and keep it high. Hate UNC, but starting with Dean and continuing with those that followed, their bigs always keep the ball above their head, makes it much harder to strip and leads to far more foul calls on the other team.
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The ability to keep the ball high all the time was part of what made Tim D. so great. He seemed to be able to keep the ball up forever. Ody needs to learn that. Maybe Forbes and Chill could convince Tim to stop by for a few minutes one day and give a few pointers to the Wake bigs.
 
So thru last game Muscius and Massoud have a combined 11 assists and 46 turnovers for the season. Neath and Whitt also have alot of turnovers but Whitt is adjusting and getting much better in that regard. Neath played ok last night but always seems to have some bad turnovers each game.
 
BC decided to not cover Jacobi Neath outside the arc. He had 4 open looks from 3 with no defender even attempting to challenge the shot. Neath badly missed all 4 shots; two came during BC's late game run to cut it to 1; had Neath been able to make an open 3; the game wouldn't have gotten tight because in addition to more points; forcing the defense to cover Neath would have opened the lane. So lame when fans critique personnel decisions, but straining to find the rationale to play Neath the last 8 minutes of the game without substitution (yes, I'm lame). Got to play your best 5 or 6 players during that stretch, and Neath hasn't played to that level and certainly wasn't heating up last night.
 
Pilchard said:
BC decided to not cover Jacobi Neath outside the arc. He had 4 open looks from 3 with no defender even attempting to challenge the shot. Neath badly missed all 4 shots; two came during BC's late game run to cut it to 1; had Neath been able to make an open 3; the game wouldn't have gotten tight because in addition to more points; forcing the defense to cover Neath would have opened the lane. So lame when fans critique personnel decisions, but straining to find the rationale to play Neath the last 8 minutes of the game without substitution (yes, I'm lame). Got to play your best 5 or 6 players during that stretch, and Neath hasn't played to that level and certainly wasn't heating up last night.
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Have to think part of the reason Neath was in late was because DuBose needed to get some rest. Would need to double check, but I think Neath came out when DuBose reentered with about 3-4 minutes left.
 
In whatever game that was where Whitt and Daivien got eaten alive when pressed, it was Neath coming in that settled things down. He's not all that quick but he gets open and protects the ball with his size and strength. Dubose has a similar build, Forbes mentioned that the press turnover we had last night was when Dubose was gassed and didn't come back to get the ball. Both Whitt and Daivien turn it over more often than Neath and don't have his size on defense, with a lead down the stretch, you need to get stops, not turn the ball over, and maybe score. Makes sense to me that those are Neath minutes. Less so if we were chasing from behind.
 
Neath subbed in at the 7:02 mark, and according to the official play by play never subbed out. When Neath entered the game, WF was ahead 59-47. Over the next 4+ minutes, WF was outscored 15-4.

One of the memorable late-game meltdown plays came when Neath got trapped, lost the ball, but DuBose scrambled back to get it, and lobbed the ball to Massoud, who somehow failed to handle the pass (hard to tell from the TV angle if the pass was off or Massoud just alligator-armed it), and BC scored to cut down the lead to 1. Maybe, Williamson just can't handle the press to any kind of competent level, but I must be watching a different game if Neath is our end of game protect the lead PG. FWIW, I like Neath, and think he has a role, just felt like his play didn't merit being the one WF player who wasn't subbed out during the meltdown.
 
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Pilchard said:
BC decided to not cover Jacobi Neath outside the arc. He had 4 open looks from 3 with no defender even attempting to challenge the shot. Neath badly missed all 4 shots; two came during BC's late game run to cut it to 1; had Neath been able to make an open 3; the game wouldn't have gotten tight because in addition to more points; forcing the defense to cover Neath would have opened the lane. So lame when fans critique personnel decisions, but straining to find the rationale to play Neath the last 8 minutes of the game without substitution (yes, I'm lame). Got to play your best 5 or 6 players during that stretch, and Neath hasn't played to that level and certainly wasn't heating up last night.
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I was wondering the exact same thing. Neath does not make great decisions and can be a bit careless with the ball.
 
DCDeac said:
In whatever game that was where Whitt and Daivien got eaten alive when pressed, it was Neath coming in that settled things down. He's not all that quick but he gets open and protects the ball with his size and strength. Dubose has a similar build, Forbes mentioned that the press turnover we had last night was when Dubose was gassed and didn't come back to get the ball. Both Whitt and Daivien turn it over more often than Neath and don't have his size on defense, with a lead down the stretch, you need to get stops, not turn the ball over, and maybe score. Makes sense to me that those are Neath minutes. Less so if we were chasing from behind.
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So if you look at the season to date- Neath has 26 assists and 30 turnovers and Davien has 42 assists and 33 turnovers in almost twice as many minutes. Whitt has done better the last few games as far as shooting and turnovers. Neath in his second year is struggling in the turnover department. Neath also not shooting for a good percentage overall and took some bad shots down the stretch. So not sure I see your point.
 
I mean, the point is simple. Neath turns the ball over less per minute than Daivien and Whitt. Beyond the metrics (which are very close between Neath and Daivien from a turnover perspective), both Whitt and Daivien have had massive struggles in multiple games handling the press. Neath has not.

I'm one of the more critical Neath guys because he's infuriatingly inconsistent when executing our offense. But if we need to get the ball safely up the floor he's the best we have. Whitt and Daivien are both very good at simply staying covered and forcing Wake to throw to a 3rd option as well. They've been responsible for more turnovers against the press than they have been credited with.
 
saus21 said:
I was wondering the exact same thing. Neath does not make great decisions and can be a bit careless with the ball.
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In 20 min. Neath had 2 Tos. He played much better than Williamson last night.
 
DCDeac said:
I mean, the point is simple. Neath turns the ball over less per minute than Daivien and Whitt. Beyond the metrics (which are very close between Neath and Daivien from a turnover perspective), both Whitt and Daivien have had massive struggles in multiple games handling the press. Neath has not.

I'm one of the more critical Neath guys because he's infuriatingly inconsistent when executing our offense. But if we need to get the ball safely up the floor he's the best we have. Whitt and Daivien are both very good at simply staying covered and forcing Wake to throw to a 3rd option as well. They've been responsible for more turnovers against the press than they have been credited with.
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SHHH...reality doesn't matter.
 
DCDeac said:
I mean, the point is simple. Neath turns the ball over less per minute than Daivien and Whitt.
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Having watched every game this year, if I had to choose a Wake player to beat the press, I would go Williamson, Whitt, and then Neath. Neath has a loose handle. Neath also averages a lot more turnovers per minute than Williamson.
 
I like Neath and think he can absolutely play a role, but I have to believe he can see the writing on the wall w/ Whitt, Williamson, McCray, and Hildreth all in the fold for '21. And if Dubose returns?

I know Forbes likes to play a ton of guys, but I see no reason why Whitt & Williamson wouldn't get 25-30 minutes each next season.
 
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